cycling4freaks.com

In this thread team fl is deleting posts:
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/RSFForum/v ... =16&t=7857

At least one post of Idéfix and mine were deleted.
Both posts were related / contributing to the topic so I see here a severe misusing of (forum) admin rights.

Not that it would surprise me since both were continously attacking me and/or Idéfix in the last years.
But if you don't like what we write - at least don't open threads with baseless claims.

This would actually help to keep the forum clean(er) and help the fpc to focus on real insults and fairness violations.

Changed the title as nothing was done by Robyklebt.
He actually removed also a post from Roby.

luques wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:36 pm

Changed the title as nothing was done by Robyklebt.
He actually removed also a post from Roby.

Well you not only changed the title - you also edited my post.
And Roby(klebt) has been already misusing his forum rights in the past and ofc his friend fl jumped right away in the thread:
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/RSFForum/v ... =16&t=5580

Luques your intentions were maybe good but changing someones forum posts is also not acceptable for me (then better delete)
The topic and problem evolves around team fl AND especially Robyklebt.

Deleting/modifying posts gives always the aura of censorship behind the "honorable motives" like "keeping the forum clean" / "keeping off topic away".
In fact I directly accused team fl of censorship.
As result he deleted my post (and it was him as you found out).

Here my original post from 8:51pm.
I am not saying it makes a big difference but I don't that posts are being changed.
I wrote what I was writing and everyone can see that - there is nothing to hide.

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:01 am

Well you not only changed the title - you also edited my post.

I just removed those parts that referred to Robyklebt as it was a clear FALSE claim.
You can keep saying that, but it will still be FALSE.

I think FPK members can simply see that from the moderator last actions list, otherwise they can ask me.

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:01 am

And Roby(klebt) has been already misusing his forum rights in the past and ofc his friend fl jumped right away in the thread:
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/RSFForum/v ... =16&t=5580

In this case he didnt do absolutely nothing, so nothing to be investigated about.
If you want to be angry with someone that's Team FL.

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:01 am

Luques your intentions were maybe good but changing someones forum posts is also not acceptable for me (then better delete)
The topic and problem evolves around team fl AND especially Robyklebt.

The problem (if a problem there is) isn't Robyklebt as he didn't do absolutely nothing.
This forum isn't made for personal battles but it is made to alert and help the FPK.
If I write that team A is doing a team attack when it is team B, it's perfectly fine to modify a post in this particular section, as it is made to HELP the FPK.

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:01 am

Deleting/modifying posts gives always the aura of censorship behind the "honorable motives" like "keeping the forum clean" / "keeping off topic away".
In fact I directly accused team fl of censorship.
As result he deleted my post (and it was him as you found out).

This is another thing that may be discussed, but including Robyklebt in this discussion may be misleading as not everybody has the infos I have about who did what.
So if the topic stay unchanged many people may have argued about Robyklebt without knowing at all the matter (as they can't see who modifies posts).

I did exactly what I wrote: I deleted spam in a fairness thread, after a fair warning. As I have moderator rights and the right to delete posts includes that, I don't see a problem with that. I did not interfer in any discussion about the actual case, I did not treat any user differently than any other. The fact that it happend in a fairness thread about TeamSWE, opened by Robyklebt, is coincidental, as the users writing in that threat, namely TeamSWE and Idéfix, are the most notorious ones to dismiss forum rules and common decency, it seems.

And the fact, that this threat has not been deleted yet, neither by Robyklebt or myself, should tell you a story about censorship... But I am pretty sure you're not able to comprehend it anyway.

And btw, this:

Both posts were related / contributing to the topic so I see here a severe misusing of (forum) admin rights.

is a blunt lie, as Idéfix post, and your reaction to me deleting it had NOTHING to do with the acutal case, which is about your alleged insult. It was nothing more than personal attacks, weird allegations and conspiracy theories that clearly deviated from the topic.

Any luques interference in this thread is not censorship, it's correcting more lies from you.

team fl wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:24 am

I did exactly what I wrote: I deleted spam in a fairness thread, after a fair warning. As I have moderator rights and the right to delete posts includes that, I don't see a problem with that. I did not interfer in any discussion about the actual case, I did not treat any user differently than any other. The fact that it happend in a fairness thread about TeamSWE, opened by Robyklebt, is coincidental, as the users writing in that threat, namely TeamSWE and Idéfix, are the most notorious ones to dismiss forum rules and common decency, it seems.

And the fact, that this threat has not been deleted yet, neither by Robyklebt or myself, should tell you a story about censorship... But I am pretty sure you're not able to comprehend it anyway.

And btw, this:

Both posts were related / contributing to the topic so I see here a severe misusing of (forum) admin rights.

is a blunt lie, as Idéfix post, and your reaction to me deleting it had NOTHING to do with the acutal case, which is about your alleged insult. It was nothing more than personal attacks, weird allegations and conspiracy theories that clearly deviated from the topic.

Any luques interference in this thread is not censorship, it's correcting more lies from you.

Fact 1: you deleted multiple posts in a fairness thread. I call it censorship and that is freedom of speech.
Fact 2: Luques modified my post here which I didn't ask for. I call it not acceptable and that is freedom of speech.

Then about the deleted posts itself: I call them related to the matter and that is my opinion.
You call my opinion a lie which clearly shows that you act biased and non neutral.
Why not letting the fpc decide about the matter letting all posts where they were?
Why interfering at all in that fp thread from the Donkey which is clearly nonsense?
Before screaming "that is a lie" I mark this again as opinion.

I only react to your two "facts" you present, the rest is simply too much BS...

Fact 1: you deleted multiple posts in a fairness thread. I call it censorship and that is freedom of speech.

I deleted them accoring to my rights as a moderator in this forum, which is a private platform, not public space. All three posts I deleted had nothing to do with the actual case about the alleged insult from you. Idéfix' post was simply a personal attack against Robyklebt, Robyklebt's post was his reaction to it and your post was your reaction to me deleting posts. Which is, by definition, spam in that thread. I even gave a warning after Idéfix first off-topic post and let that post stay for everybody to see what I mean. If you can't comprehend that, I guess there is no reason to continue here...

Fact 2: Luques modified my post here which I didn't ask for. I call it not acceptable and that is freedom of speech.

Luques did that, because your title and post were misleading and at least in parts clearly wrong (some would say you lied...). Be grateful, with his adaption he makes you look better than you are.

And

(...) that is my opinion.

is simply not a valid argument if you can't back it up.

I don't see any reason to investigate here. FL has the right to delete posts that don't contribute to the topic, which those posts didn't seem to do

team fl wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:34 am

Fact 2: Luques modified my post here which I didn't ask for. I call it not acceptable and that is freedom of speech.

Luques did that, because your title and post were misleading and at least in parts clearly wrong (some would say you lied...). Be grateful, with his adaption he makes you look better than you are.

Just to be more clear, this particular section of the forum isn't for gossip, it is made to help the FPK when they can't spot all the violations occurring in the game.

So the information reported here must be as accurate as possible in order to help the FPK and not mislead users.
Especially in this case, where users can't check by themselves the fact (as they can't read the log of moderators), misinformation can lead to flame.

For this reason the post was corrected, removing the part that was clearly false.

Having freedom of speach isn't the same thing of freedom to spread lies.
And it was not an opinion, it was just a clear false accusation, indeed the part of the post that contained your opinion is still here.

If I really want to limit the freedom of speach on the forum, I have better ways than losing time editing a post.

First of all there a is a difference between lie and false statement.
As you pointed out yourself a "normal" forum user cannot know who deleted the post.
And I wrote Donkey and/or FL so that is 100% correct sind 2 posts were deleted and if I write and/or it can have the following possibility:
1) FL deleted 2 posts
2) Donkey deleted 2 posts
3) FL deleted 1 posts, Donkey deleted post

case 1) was correct - thank me all for the logic lesson.
Good night, bonne nuit, buona notte, buenas noches, gute Nacht!

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:46 am

First of all there a is a difference between lie and false statement.
As you pointed out yourself a "normal" forum user cannot know who deleted the post.
And I wrote Donkey and/or FL so that is 100% correct sind 2 posts were deleted and if I write and/or it can have the following possibility:
1) FL deleted 2 posts
2) Donkey deleted 2 posts
3) FL deleted 1 posts, Donkey deleted post

case 1) was correct - thank me all for the logic lesson.
Good night, bonne nuit, buona notte, buenas noches, gute Nacht!

Don't really agree.
You wrote a false title accusing a wrong person.

Normality for me would be: I accept the title/post change (also with the notes) and apologize to the person I falsely accused.

Your reaction even after my explanation was: telling that there is no freedom of speech -> reposting the original post that contained false statements (when you already know they were false as I wrote that)-> No apologize toward the wrong accused person.

Beside that, nobody is referencing the fact that FL deleted also a post from Robyklebt in the same discussion. So FL deleted 3 posts, while you keep saying 2 posts. Once again I said that on the first post and you are ignoring that as it probably doesn't fit the narrative.

Let me know when a false statement becomes a lie.

luques wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:08 pm

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:46 am

First of all there a is a difference between lie and false statement.
As you pointed out yourself a "normal" forum user cannot know who deleted the post.
And I wrote Donkey and/or FL so that is 100% correct sind 2 posts were deleted and if I write and/or it can have the following possibility:
1) FL deleted 2 posts
2) Donkey deleted 2 posts
3) FL deleted 1 posts, Donkey deleted post

case 1) was correct - thank me all for the logic lesson.
Good night, bonne nuit, buona notte, buenas noches, gute Nacht!

Don't really agree.
You wrote a false title accusing a wrong person.

Normality for me would be: I accept the title/post change (also with the notes) and apologize to the person I falsely accused.

Your reaction even after my explanation was: telling that there is no freedom of speech -> reposting the original post that contained false statements (when you already know they were false as I wrote that)-> No apologize toward the wrong accused person.

Beside that, nobody is referencing the fact that FL deleted also a post from Robyklebt in the same discussion. So FL deleted 3 posts, while you keep saying 2 posts. Once again I said that on the first post and you are ignoring that as it probably doesn't fit the narrative.

Let me know when a false statement becomes a lie.

So when was the third post deleted?
As I am only a normal user I cannot know such things.

From my first post:

luques wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:36 pm

Changed the title as nothing was done by Robyklebt.
He actually removed also a post from Roby.

Same day as your. Don't care about the reasons but again the main concept is giving all the CORRECT and FULL infos to the FPK.

P.S. Btw nothing more to add, as for me I would have eliminated contributions to that post even before, probably just locking it until resolution of FPK, if the FPK doesn't see nothing here I think we can close.

Go ahead and close it.

Just hilarious how effort is done to suppress opinions from rather unimportant players and justify arbitrario behavior from certain people

But it's not the only "joke" here.

Or just delete the whole thing as it became common.

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:48 pm

Just hilarious how effort is done to suppress opinions from rather unimportant players and justify arbitrario behavior from certain people

What opinions are we suppressing? I am curious.

luques wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:43 pm

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:48 pm

Just hilarious how effort is done to suppress opinions from rather unimportant players and justify arbitrario behavior from certain people

What opinions are we suppressing? I am curious.

Deleting posts containing opinions = suppressing opinions. Simple hm?
Just I can't quote them...since...they...are....deleted.

I use the topic to give some hints to what I think this section should be (doesn't mean it will be like that or must be like that).

I see the FPK part of the forum as a tribunal.
In a tribunal there is freedom of speech?
I think it's pretty much democratic.

However, not everybody can say everything in a tribunal and not even those who can talk can say anything.

Would something like this

scorpsche wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:22 pm

donkey cyring for 1 month to get an investigation for a typo ("symbolbild"):
cyring_donkey.jpg

really pathetic

be tolerated in a tribunal?

I am saying a tribunal but it could be everything else where there is a judge (a referee for example).
Nobody usually argues with a referee or he can be sent off.

This means there that even when there is freedom of speech, in some parts not everything is tolerated.

I see basically 3 choices in front:

1) Keep things as they are, helping a bit more fpk members

2) Being more strict on eliminating all the posts of not involved managers and locking topic as the FPK thinks they had enough material and they can decide.

3) Preparing to eliminate definetly the FPK section of the forum and starting to develop an ingame form to tell fpk members that something was wrong. So everything will be treated ingame and only between involved teams and fpk members.

As you may guess, even from the past, I am more for options 2 and 3, but at the end I kept the option 1 as the community wanted like that. I see now that, that solution isn't working for fpk members nor for players.

As for the members of the FPK I think we have a good group with different ideas, which is important to have a balanced judgement. On this matter, I see that a bit too many times (for my taste) they are *insulted* (often hidden insults) without having any protection on critics.

If they fine someone for saying that FPK is completely shit, they risk to end each time into a conflict of interest (I am the one who is offended and the one who can punish).

Also this thing should be in some way defended, always remember that FPK members are managers putting their time for free to solve problems because other people can't behave normally (most of the times) and while they may get it wrong / be slow, judging something isnt always so easy.

Open to advices as usual.