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Giro 10 am

with 10 to go, escape won, a group with Demuth and circle in front of peloton, Cabanas try to gain positions in GC, and then, Dreizehn comes in tempo in the 4% at km 161 where I planned to attack with Kovago to try to get yellow and put Chapéau behind...
Finally I attacked later, but with sad result

So the question is does Dreizehn is riding for Haudegen?

Haudegen was almost online only 20/30% of each stage when he was on, and was off in almost all sprint stages, and Dreizehn is a bit the contrary, and that tempo in the end today looks very suspect...

I'll wait for FPC statement

PS : I don't say that he made me lose my last chances to win it, but at least I would have put Demuth in an harder situation that at the end...

I saw the race in the visitor windows.
Clear case of unrealistic tempo and Haudegen is a proven multi.

I demand that the Fairplay committee ignore SM's complaint.
SM complains about unrealistic tempo each time somebody doesn't ride like he wants him to ride. My favorite example a TdS where an Italian guy rode tempo.... absolutely idiotic tempo for nothing and no good according to SM, even after the end of the stage, a stage the Italian guy actually won. And SM lost the GC because he was to cheap to use one of his money riders to drop back and pull the leader.

I say not only ignore SM, I say fine him for wasting your time and opening a fairness thread, something that he should have no right to do. Since his riding and general chat behaviour is simply what he accuses others of doing: Unfair.

ps if you think a fine is not appropriate, ban him.

Robyklebt wrote:I demand that the Fairplay committee ignore SM's complaint.

I say fine him for wasting your time and opening a fairness thread ....

Good idea

sylvainmeteo wrote:Giro 10 am

.....
So the question is does Dreizehn is riding for Haudegen?

Haudegen was almost online only 20/30% of each stage when he was on, and was off in almost all sprint stages, and Dreizehn is a bit the contrary, and that tempo in the end today looks very suspect...

I'll wait for FPC statement

PS : I don't say that he made me lose my last chances to win it, but at least I would have put Demuth in an harder situation that at the end...

I noticed that too... Dreizehn and Haudegen hardly online at the same time, and in one of the first stages Haudegen was pulling the Dreizehn-guy. And RSO says Haudegen is a proven Multi, so.... i could imagine there is something wrong.....

CircleCycle wrote: I noticed that too... Dreizehn and Haudegen hardly online at the same time, and in one of the first stages Haudegen was pulling the Dreizehn-guy. And RSO says Haudegen is a proven Multi, so.... i could imagine there is something wrong.....

How do you take this ? Which is proven ?
The fairplay comitee doesn´t need imagination but facts.
Fact is that Haudegen and Dreizehn have different IPs in 2 different cities.

lesossies wrote:

CircleCycle wrote: I noticed that too... Dreizehn and Haudegen hardly online at the same time, and in one of the first stages Haudegen was pulling the Dreizehn-guy. And RSO says Haudegen is a proven Multi, so.... i could imagine there is something wrong.....

How do you take this ? Which is proven ?
The fairplay comitee doesn´t need imagination but facts.
Fact is that Haudegen and Dreizehn have different IPs in 2 different cities.

But it changes nothing if they are multis or not. The fact that there had a lot of irrealistic tempo between this 2 teams, and it looks good to remember that it is forbidden, it is wwrite on fairplay rules, and it is why this topic is open.

I agree with Leso.

Well actually from your post I don't understand the point correctly, you said you was attacking Demuth yellow (in the last day of the GIRO ehm only in the morning..), then Dreizehn went in tempo and he was riding for Haudegen? Wasn't he riding for Demuth?

Anyway...
They rode unrealistic tempo? Ok,ok, then let's see what the causes can be.

1) They are the same person (as SM post seems to say), we have no evidence of it. Maybe you can be right, but there is no real evidence as leso said.

2) They made some agreements via skype or Facebook or other things, well then we end up on the same thing of RFM of cooperation where everything is just a mess, and there are just hypothesis.

So what we have? Unrealistic tempo? Well, there is a lot actually of unrealistic tempo, you can see it every day. People riding in a group just because they are against the MS, people riding in the peloton because "i forgot to put a rider in the escape", people defending some kind of 4th, 5th,6th GC place and helping the leader. Well you can find everything, and you can find it also in the reality.

What I can tell you? If you have a suspect keep it and maybe find some other evidences, what we have at the moment is not much. I am sorry for how things went in your group but I can guarantee you that there was a lot of unrealistic riding also in other groups. Surely this thing is annoying but everybody rides the way he wants even if it is senseless. For the possible multi things, we have really no evidence as Leso told.

What could be nice would be an explanation from Dreizehn, surely you won't find it satisfactory but at least you have it.

EDIT: Some other questions... did he continued tempo after it? Or was just blocking?

luques wrote:I agree with Leso.

Well actually from your post I don't understand the point correctly, you said you was attacking Demuth yellow (in the last day of the GIRO ehm only in the morning..), then Dreizehn went in tempo and he was riding for Haudegen? Wasn't he riding for Demuth?

Anyway...
They rode unrealistic tempo? Ok,ok, then let's see what the causes can be.

1) They are the same person (as SM post seems to say), we have no evidence of it. Maybe you can be right, but there is no real evidence as leso said.

2) They made some agreements via skype or Facebook or other things, well then we end up on the same thing of RFM of cooperation where everything is just a mess, and there are just hypothesis.

So what we have? Unrealistic tempo? Well, there is a lot actually of unrealistic tempo, you can see it every day. People riding in a group just because they are against the MS, people riding in the peloton because "i forgot to put a rider in the escape", people defending some kind of 4th, 5th,6th GC place and helping the leader. Well you can find everything, and you can find it also in the reality.

What I can tell you? If you have a suspect keep it and maybe find some other evidences, what we have at the moment is not much. I am sorry for how things went in your group but I can guarantee you that there was a lot of unrealistic riding also in other groups. Surely this thing is annoying but everybody rides the way he wants even if it is senseless. For the possible multi things, we have really no evidence as Leso told.

What could be nice would be an explanation from Dreizehn, surely you won't find it satisfactory but at least you have it.

EDIT: Some other questions... did he continued tempo after it? Or was just blocking?

He started at km 161 UNTIL the end

sylvainmeteo wrote:

luques wrote:I agree with Leso.

Well actually from your post I don't understand the point correctly, you said you was attacking Demuth yellow (in the last day of the GIRO ehm only in the morning..), then Dreizehn went in tempo and he was riding for Haudegen? Wasn't he riding for Demuth?

Anyway...
They rode unrealistic tempo? Ok,ok, then let's see what the causes can be.

1) They are the same person (as SM post seems to say), we have no evidence of it. Maybe you can be right, but there is no real evidence as leso said.

2) They made some agreements via skype or Facebook or other things, well then we end up on the same thing of RFM of cooperation where everything is just a mess, and there are just hypothesis.

So what we have? Unrealistic tempo? Well, there is a lot actually of unrealistic tempo, you can see it every day. People riding in a group just because they are against the MS, people riding in the peloton because "i forgot to put a rider in the escape", people defending some kind of 4th, 5th,6th GC place and helping the leader. Well you can find everything, and you can find it also in the reality.

What I can tell you? If you have a suspect keep it and maybe find some other evidences, what we have at the moment is not much. I am sorry for how things went in your group but I can guarantee you that there was a lot of unrealistic riding also in other groups. Surely this thing is annoying but everybody rides the way he wants even if it is senseless. For the possible multi things, we have really no evidence as Leso told.

What could be nice would be an explanation from Dreizehn, surely you won't find it satisfactory but at least you have it.

EDIT: Some other questions... did he continued tempo after it? Or was just blocking?

He started at km 161 UNTIL the end

Uhm then I think he was riding more against Cabanas then against Kovago if I understand good. I mean nobody could guess that you would attack that km, instead Cabanas was in front.

In any case I still think that the best thing you can have is an answer from him, for sure it won't be satisfactory but at least you have something. There is too few things to indicate a link between Dreizehn and Haudegen, I will keep monitoring.