JoyRide attempt to make unrealistic arrangement

[Liquigas-CND]

Dear all,

On 10th of May 2018 I have received a message on forum from JoyRide asking me the following:

qoute
Hi ....,

If you think you can give me a mountain stage for Kutovic I help you the entire tour to control, I know I cannot win the GC that's why I want a mountain stage.
unqte

Basically he was trying to trade his help for a stage received as present from me...

Immediately I replied as per below:

qte
Salut,
Honestly I cannot promise you something like that because it would mean I would arrange a stage.
You will have your chance for winning a stage.
unqte

Both original messages are in Romanian language but they can be easily translated.

I do not know if he broke any rule but I consider JoyRide message as being an attempt to reach an unrealistic arrangement and has to be punished in my opinion.

Thank You and Kind regards,
Liqui

[Joy]

Dear all,

On 10th of May 2018 I have received a message on forum from JoyRide asking me the following:

qoute
Hi ....,

If you think you can give me a mountain stage for Kutovic I help you the entire tour to control, I know I cannot win the GC that's why I want a mountain stage.
unqte

Basically he was trying to trade his help for a stage received as present from me...

Immediately I replied as per below:

qte
Salut,
Honestly I cannot promise you something like that because it would mean I would arrange a stage.
You will have your chance for winning a stage.
unqte

Both original messages are in Romanian language but they can be easily translated.

I do not know if he broke any rule but I consider JoyRide message as being an attempt to reach an unrealistic arrangement and has to be punished in my opinion.

Thank You and Kind regards,
Liqui

correct
I have 2 observations
1 did not conclude the alleged request for collaboration (though in races are made daily collaborations in different races)
2 is it legal to post a private message on the forum without the other person's permission?

[Liquigas-CND]

1. This was not really a request for collaboration but a tentative to arrange a race with me. And this attempt was not concluded only because I refused.

2. Fairness Committe will decide this but I believe my action is in line with below rulea of this game.
Since we both accepted this rule my duty was to report your attempt and your obligation was to respect the rules.
Fairness Committe will decide if an attemp is punishable.

Qte

Other fair-play rules:
- unrealistic arrangements are not allowed
Unqte


Thank you,
Liqui

[Joy]

As i said theres unrealistic arrangements in mostly races( you did that last night against Poke)

So let me guess ...u think that if i said that in race chat would be ok but not in PM....ok
PM shoudl be PRIVATE and not to post on public without both parts agreed,wich u didnt asked me if is ok

Enjoy the game with u're trully superior way of being ...
i'm done
i'll take the punishment if FPK will decide

Cheers

[chartreusecycle]

Code: Select all

So let me guess ...u think that if i said that in race chat would be ok but not in PM....ok

Unfortunately JoyRide, I guess you made the conclusion yourself. You will probably be fined and warned by FPK.

Anyway, what a classy action from Liquigas-CND

[Pokemon Club]

Other fair-play rules:
- unrealistic arrangements are not allowed
Unqte

But why it should be consider as unrealistic if both parts have something to win ? If JoyRide must do the best for his team, the best was probably to ally with the most dominant team in the game. It looks ugly but that seems legit. And if others teams aren't happy about they can avenge themselves in the game instead of implore FPK for X or Y reason for one. It is Cycling4freaks, not Crying4freaks after all.

[Joy]

I just knew that if i attack i would lost stage and p4 GK or lower with Liqui superior team and way of being...having 2 strong climbers even without foloowing he could closed the gap and win with the other one...for me GC counts in a tour not always the stage

I knew from the min 1 that i'll have p3 GC and youth and i was fine with that
With minnots there and his style of riding yes i could helped controling the tour if he gaved me a mountain stage at sprint(that massege didnt post it that was the real deal)
I'm a honest person and a honorable man after 20 years of profesional sporting

sorry for repeaqting it: there are daily arangements in races for better results

Cheers

[Joy]

I just knew that if i attack i would lost stage and p4 GK or lower with Liqui superior team and way of being...having 2 strong climbers even without foloowing he could closed the gap and win with the other one...for me GC counts in a tour not always the stage

I knew from the min 1 that i'll have p3 GC and youth and i was fine with that
With minnots there and his style of riding yes i could helped controling the tour if he gaved me a mountain stage at sprint(that massege didnt post it that was the real deal)
I'm a honest person and a honorable man after 20 years of profesional sporting

sorry for repeaqting it: there are daily arangements in races for better results

Cheers

and speaking about the truth ..... Liqui calls CC a chicken cause he search for weak fields just to have wins,but that exactly what he did in Giro he saw an opportunity to have stages to pass Poke in Div champ so he like the situiation,..well pathatic way of superior manager...

[Liquigas-CND]

JoyRide last message is totally offtopic.

In my opinion JoyRide attempt was not only unrealistic but also unfair for the other teams riding in the field.

He tried to convince me not to defend my chances correctly and let him win a stage that he never deserved imo by offering his help for the entire tour.
After I refused his help, he started to make tempo couple of times during the mountain stages, chasing escapes and he stopped only after I told him several times to stop cause I do not need any help. So the attempt almost was materialized and maybe sombody that rode 9AM Giro will confirm.

Furthermore, I strongly believe that victories should be obtained by each team riding for its chances not by sending such messages on forum trying to obtain undue benefits behind the curtain.

Now I will wait the Fairness Committee decision!

[chartreusecycle]

But why it should be consider as unrealistic if both parts have something to win ? If JoyRide must do the best for his team, the best was probably to ally with the most dominant team in the game. It looks ugly but that seems legit. And if others teams aren't happy about they can avenge themselves in the game instead of implore FPK for X or Y reason for one. It is Cycling4freaks, not Crying4freaks after all

The only one crying is Liquigas-CND himself.

Maybe he is bored as most dominant manager to receive so much requests from weak teams ?

[Hunsrueck]

fpc is reviewing this case

[Kelme-Movistar]

I can't understand this move of "warning".

He just asked for a collaboration. If Liquigas would agree and others would mark it, then it would have been not nice, but not unfair. Everyone has the possibillity and makes it every day.
There Liquigas had the choice between agree and not agree.
Unrealistic? Unrealistic would have been, if a 46 mountain guy asks this to a 87 mountain guy.

On every stage / race, Managers manipulate others or match agreements with others for wins, jerseys or against a third manager.

Well look at mass-sprint-stages. 2 until 5 teams collaborate for the ms and only one team is the favorite for the stage with a 97 sprinter and others have max. 93 sprinter. Or, if somebody goes for the intermediates and hill points and help the co-escaper to go for finish without own chance to win.

In this case asking is just nice and fair and the other one decides. I can't see a problem.
Psycho games are more unfair than asking for such a collaboration.

[kunske]

I can't understand this move of "warning".

He just asked for a collaboration. If Liquigas would agree and others would mark it, then it would have been not nice, but not unfair. Everyone has the possibillity and makes it every day.
There Liquigas had the choice between agree and not agree.
Unrealistic? Unrealistic would have been, if a 46 mountain guy asks this to a 87 mountain guy.

On every stage / race, Managers manipulate others or match agreements with others for wins, jerseys or against a third manager.

Well look at mass-sprint-stages. 2 until 5 teams collaborate for the ms and only one team is the favorite for the stage with a 97 sprinter and others have max. 93 sprinter. Or, if somebody goes for the intermediates and hill points and help the co-escaper to go for finish without own chance to win.

In this case asking is just nice and fair and the other one decides. I can't see a problem.
Psycho games are more unfair than asking for such a collaboration.

Do you mean Billourd.Help is allways nice and i will allways ask before the race. I someone will help him ok by me otherwise not and i will ride. Its the same what Joy did only not in race.

[luques]

Imo the real problem here is that he was arranging via PM. Not the fact that he was trying to reach an agreement.

[Kelme-Movistar]

I think: The answer decides, whether it will be a contract.

Am I unterstand right, it is allowed to make collaborations, but only not secret. Just funny.
If the peloton knows it, what shall other Teams do against maybe the both best Teams in Peloton, who are collaborating?
That's why, for me it is equal if secret or in race-chat.

[luques]

I think: The answer decides, whether it will be a contract.

Am I unterstand right, it is allowed to make collaborations, but only not secret. Just funny.
If the peloton knows it, what shall other Teams do against maybe the both best Teams in Peloton, who are collaborating?
That's why, for me it is equal if secret or in race-chat.

There is a huge difference in my opinion between arranging in private or in race chat. I don't know how someone can think the opposite.

So would be ok if in private I arrange with one my friend telling I will work until km 180, at 180 you can set the attack. Or telling with who I attack at the beginning in private.

[Pokemon Club]

well others teams aren't very clever if 2 guys made arrangement, discover the arrangement but let the 2 teams who collab do what they want during the races and even after

[Liquigas-CND]

I agree with Luques , such attempts to arrange races are unacceptable!

The decision that is going to be taken in this case will serve as precedent therefore I think it is important to treat with tolerance zero such attempts if we do not want races to be arranged and decided behind the curtains by unscrupulous managers.

[Joy]

ok
to much drama here

it was NOT unrealistic to help Liqui controling the tour and to win a race in sprint with Amanda on a mountain stage THAT was the real so called arrangement....
from my point of view to say this in the chat race would have been an offense to the other teams(considering the structure of the peloton in that race) and it's not my kind after a 20-year competitive life, so I tried to do it privately trusting Liqui (after he asked me facebook profile to discuss) ...i was wrong

i apologize to Liqui,FPC and the other managers in this game for what i did.
Joy done with this case

have fun and enjoy the game...it is a game after all

[Joy]

I agree with Luques , such attempts to arrange races are unacceptable!

The decision that is going to be taken in this case will serve as precedent therefore I think it is important to treat with tolerance zero such attempts if we do not want races to be arranged and decided behind the curtains by unscrupulous managers.

the decision had already taken 2days ago

[Wookie]

PENALTY SUBMITTED: FINE OF 10000, WARNING: YES

[scorpsche]

Wow 100k for a pm in a forum. And Italian mafia can continue...

[luques]

Wow 100k for a pm in a forum. And Italian mafia can continue...

Just read better, it is 10K, and they are given automatically when you want to give a warning.