MSR 22 h

[Radunion]

Please look at this combined with the sprint. I want to know if this is allowed or not.

Hoefs Cycling Team(01:01): LA PRIMAVERA!!!
FSG Sattelpuper(01:01): GW CBJ
Carrera Blue Jeans(01:01): ty and than good night@all
Radunion(00:59): gw, I think you would have gotten it easier by waiting for 50 m
Elmo-Tours(00:59): as long as its not vanPoppel
Elaska(00:59): I prefer cbj win that the other clown
Hoefs Cycling Team(00:59): GW CBJ
Seibu High School(00:59): No it's you until the end of your career
Elmo-Tours(00:59): GW CBJ!
Carrera Blue Jeans(00:59): wohooooo iiiii wooooon LA CLASSICISSIMA !!!!!!!!
Carrera Blue Jeans(00:58): the brother of rfm today was Elaska
Hitdorf Cycling(00:58): gw
stevens(00:58): Close end
Carrera Blue Jeans(00:58): why should i loose ?
RSV Gera(00:58): gw CBJ
stevens(00:58): Gw carrera
Elaska(00:58): Gw cbj
Seibu High School(00:58): Why not waiit 50 m RFM's brother ?
Elaska(00:51): Stupid race
Radunion(00:45): you can put him "yes, alone" there
Carrera Blue Jeans(00:45): btw, hi@all, was watching tv whole evening
Carrera Blue Jeans(00:45): ok, in last 2
Radunion(00:44): Hsien can do the downhill alone
Hitdorf Cycling(00:21): dont understand
Hitdorf Cycling(00:21): what?
Seibu High School(00:20): He Block a potebtial attack for not let 30"
Hitdorf Cycling(00:20): rad trying to pull the breaks?
Dreizehn(23:54): atm its ok
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:52): Surviving the hills would be nice olso
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:52): Do you decide the tempo in front Dreizehn? (Hanging on your experience) ...i will not be for the victory...but
Dreizehn(23:50): doesnt matter anyway
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:49): He isnt like Japan
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:48): I dont think he is comming back
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:47): Doesnt matter..You are on time
Dreizehn(23:46): Bright off
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:46): And Guan olso, Bright?
Dreizehn(23:46): oh, didnt realise you switched
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:45): Zenon riding will be compensated later?
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:38): Are you coming back Bright?
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:19): Peter and Zenon are not happy and asking me WHY?
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:19): Pfff almost 150km to go
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:08): Japan is wise for once: don't ride so late
Seibu High School(23:05): JapanNeutron isn't here look fine
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:05): My story this month: senseless riding
Dreizehn(23:02): Carrera chasing so soon makes it already senseless
Hitdorf Cycling(23:02):
Dreizehn(23:02): this group could get 20 mins without a problem
Hitdorf Cycling(23:01): you got two in front :F
Hoefs Cycling Team(23:00): Are you saying that to Radunion?
Hitdorf Cycling(22:59):
Hitdorf Cycling(22:58): gw
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:58): Welcome back and stay strong
Bright(22:57): yeah And due to rl I've been unable to play for over a month
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:55): Its late Bright
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:54): Now we do with 1 puller....means sooner riding with the 3 others
Bright(22:53): but wegen carrera started riding I didnt wanna take the risk
Bright(22:52): should've sent 2....
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:49): Who follow Brights example?
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:48): 200 km left
Seibu High School(22:48): In 40 km I think 10 guys are in front at this rythm !
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:46): I am waiting
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:46): I do
Dreizehn(22:45): Guess Hoefs would wait
Elaska(22:43): Probably too late now
Dreizehn(22:43): You’re welcome :*
Elaska(22:43): Daamn dreiz in front I m tent to join him
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:42): Find it...and i will wait
Seibu High School(22:41): Don't know where is the attack's button
Dreizehn(22:41): Puller?
Hoefs Cycling Team(22:40): Haha you can join
Seibu High School(22:38): Thx Hoefs !
Radunion(22:13): hello and good night, I hope to stay awake until the end
Hitdorf Cycling(22:12): go
Hitdorf Cycling(22:12): lets
Hitdorf Cycling(22:12): ho
Hitdorf Cycling(22:12): hey
FSG Sattelpuper(21:58): moin
Dreizehn(21:58): Hi all
Hoefs Cycling Team(21:57): Hoi
Elmo-Tours(21:56): hola buenas
RSV Gera(21:43): moin
stevens(20:46): You can store it away but keep it just in case with Elaska...
Seibu High School(20:42): No need pop-corn tonight then ?
Hansa(20:20): Love is in the air, and probably some tears in the end too.
Falcor(20:11): Cuties
Dreizehn(20:03): So you are not active there too? Just send another pm xD
stevens(20:00): I'd lost my account
Dreizehn(19:59): Can be very funny, yes
stevens(19:59): Team stevens
stevens(19:59): Actually I quite like getting trashtalked and the trashtalking too
Dreizehn(19:58): Even reached out to you in forum, but guess it was the wrong account. Still unseen
stevens(19:58): So never mind let's move on
Dreizehn(19:57): Should never be any personal, this back and forth is just joking to me. Actually even like your sense of humor, had to laugh here and there. Lil different with Elaska, think he is never joking, just pure antipathy against me xD
stevens(19:52): evenough I didn't ask anyone for anything
stevens(19:52): Elaska’s talking to you and by attacking him you're attacking me
stevens(19:50): but you’re always mentioning my name
stevens(19:50): I've got nothing against you
Dreizehn(19:15): Just don’t point at others for it
Dreizehn(19:14): And honestly I am just making fun of it, just got annoyed to be blamed by elaska for things that you 2 always does. I am in contact with many teams about form planning, training, strategy etc. and I don’t think your coop is even unrealistic cause it happens in cycling
Dreizehn(19:11): Ah come on. You are refering to one mistake at msr where I’ve thrown away a win. But I am riding harder against Bug then against most others cause his wins start to annoy me.
Seibu High School(18:20): Ahhh RFM's brother is here too ! Need some pop-corn tonight !
stevens(18:13): I don't hear you talking about it as much when you've got your 18 guys in the morning
stevens(18:11): Dreizehn(17:11): Bug just not looking forward to ride 9 against 18
Bearclaw Cycling(17:33): I will move to 19:00. Have fun, I need tp sleep early after a long drive yesterday
Dreizehn(17:11): Bug just not looking forward to ride 9 against 18
Elaska(16:27): Hehe they are too scared to get caught cheating once again
ATB - Racing(16:23): The one unseperate duo was seperated, luckily not the other!
RideforMoney(13:20): Blc
Elaska(13:15): Come join the big party RFM
RideforMoney(13:13): Détective falcor?
Elaska(13:05): There should be a more serious job for you detective Falcor
Elaska(13:05): Oh the unseprate morning duo is there. Strangely today they simultaneously ride in the late evening. Coincidence

[Elaska]

[flockmastoR]

I want to know if this is allowed or not

maybe you are a bit more precise what you want the FPC to investigate. It's not only lazy but impolite to just throw the chat here and expect everybody to read your mind.

What exactly is your accusation?

[Radunion]

maybe you are a bit more precise what you want the FPC to investigate. It's not only lazy but impolite to just throw the chat here and expect everybody to read your mind.

What exactly is your accusation?

I made the decision not to immediately write more details. First, it was one in the morning, and I needed sleep; second, I was angry, and anger is never a good adviser. So let me explain the situation and why I think it is a major breach of fair play.

At 150 m, the order in the sprint was my 81 sprinter, followed by my 89 sprinter, Elaska's 91 sprinter, and Carrera Blue Jeans' 92 sprinter. Elaska launched from 150 m. In itself, a questionable decision, but not necessarily a breach of rules. But then, he justified the behaviour by

Elaska(00:59): I prefer cbj win that the other clown

Which is first an insult, that should be fined in itself, especially with Elaska's history (more about this later), but more importantly, a non-race-related decision, he should have a very good reason to escape punishment.

We had our differences in the past, mainly about riding styles, but little interaction in the recent past. I very much suspect that he punished me for opening a fair-play case for an insult in February, which resulted in a fine. At least during the public part of the discussion, he reacted with further attacks and showed no remorse at all. Despite this, it ended with a fine, which a big team can deal with easily. Maybe there was something else in a private discussion that justifies the decision. But this is something only he and the FPC know.

I think I argued coherently that I lost a monument because I opened a fair play case against Elaska. He should have the chance to explain himself and justify his behaviour in another way.

What I really want is a monument win, but of course, this is impossible, as Carrera Blue Jeans won it fairly. As it is impossible to repay the damage caused to me because I opened a fair play case, I think a significant fine is justified, especially because it happened on one of the biggest stages in cycling. Something that really hurts and prevents future behaviour like this from Elaska or any other team. All pending on the explanation he himself has for the behaviour, something he decided not to bring up in his first reaction to me opening the case. It looks more like he is very proud of himself and would do the same again.

[Elaska]

1. Show us the sprint end finish which proves that Cbj won with a big advantage?

2. Proves us that 150m sprint wasn't my best option?

3. Proves us that I don't win with cbj launching at the same time as I did and your 81 a bit weaker?

I m waiting.

My comment was way after the sprint end and it's my right to have a preference for any team over another. And this isn't any fair play rule violation since I did the best for my team.

The clown is also justified, with this topic oppening you just prove to us that you really are the clown you think to be.

[Radunion]

To prove my point

The clown is also justified, with this topic oppening you just prove to us that you really are the clown you think to be.

+ from today's race chat

Elaska(21:52): 40min of mintacts offer you more time to digest the loss of a monument

[Falcor CC]

FPC is investigating the case.

[Elaska]

Fpc must be very busy with all those senseless cases

[Elaska]

Could someone post the photo finish? I m not too familiar with it

[flockmastoR]

From a racer's perspective:

It's a game of incomplete information. At 150 there also was the possibility that CBJ sprints (maybe not his best choice, but with 88 in the wheel of 92 not totally uncommon, more unlikely he wins but he also risks being left behind in position 3 when there is the 100m launch of Radunion and the 50m launch of Elaska.

Going left for Elaska additionally blocks CBJ's sprinter, looking at the replay I am a bit surprised how he escaped there, I guess he was a bit blocked there at least (not enough in the end).

The statement is a bit rude, FPC recently didnt fine "stupid clown" so I would be surprised if it is seen as a finable insult here (given the term is just used this one time or repeatably makes a difference of course).

But telling after the sprint that you are more happy with A winning instead of B is somehow acceptable imo. If you risk losing to A with a chance of 50% with action x, and losing to B with a chance of 50% with action y, even selecting your action based on that is not a problem. If you lower your chances on purpose just to make B lose is a problem for sure. The problem here is simply how to prove it? And where is the line between a bad decision and intentional harming your own chances.

Maybe if this happens once, there is no chance to see it proved, If it happens more often and being reported, I see chances.

[Radunion]

From a racer's perspective:

It's a game of incomplete information. At 150 there also was the possibility that CBJ sprints (maybe not his best choice, but with 88 in the wheel of 92 not totally uncommon, more unlikely he wins but he also risks being left behind in position 3 when there is the 100m launch of Radunion and the 50m launch of Elaska.

Going left for Elaska additionally blocks CBJ's sprinter, looking at the replay I am a bit surprised how he escaped there, I guess he was a bit blocked there at least (not enough in the end).

The statement is a bit rude, FPC recently didnt fine "stupid clown" so I would be surprised if it is seen as a finable insult here (given the term is just used this one time or repeatably makes a difference of course).

But telling after the sprint that you are more happy with A winning instead of B is somehow acceptable imo. If you risk losing to A with a chance of 50% with action x, and losing to B with a chance of 50% with action y, even selecting your action based on that is not a problem. If you lower your chances on purpose just to make B lose is a problem for sure. The problem here is simply how to prove it? And where is the line between a bad decision and intentional harming your own chances.

Maybe if this happens once, there is no chance to see it proved, If it happens more often and being reported, I see chances.

I do not think you get my point. The sprint itself I would have to accept. Saying it was on purpose and insult me (the way it was said was clearly aimed to hurt me, so it is an insult whatever was fined in the past or not) is not okay. It is one think to say it cannot be fined because there is no proof, having somebody admitting it and getting away with it is something else.

Most of the managers in the game are really nice, but we cannot tolerate insults, bullying or continuous aggressive language (Elaska is definatly not the worst in this respect). At some point it is necessary to do something to keep a nice atmosphere in the game to keep it fun and managers hooked to it. Draw a clear line what is allowed and what is damaging the game. I already have one team I will not interact in the race chat whatever he says. It is not fun to ride this way, still better than the alternatives. I do not want to be forced to extend the list. Up to I point I will just do this, but there might be a point where I question my commitment to the game, something others already did. Tolerating is for some teams will just embolden others to behave is similar ways. Clear rules and consistent enforcement can keep the game what is it and what we love.

[Elaska]

From a racer's perspective:

It's a game of incomplete information. At 150 there also was the possibility that CBJ sprints (maybe not his best choice, but with 88 in the wheel of 92 not totally uncommon, more unlikely he wins but he also risks being left behind in position 3 when there is the 100m launch of Radunion and the 50m launch of Elaska.

Going left for Elaska additionally blocks CBJ's sprinter, looking at the replay I am a bit surprised how he escaped there, I guess he was a bit blocked there at least (not enough in the end).

The statement is a bit rude, FPC recently didnt fine "stupid clown" so I would be surprised if it is seen as a finable insult here (given the term is just used this one time or repeatably makes a difference of course).

But telling after the sprint that you are more happy with A winning instead of B is somehow acceptable imo. If you risk losing to A with a chance of 50% with action x, and losing to B with a chance of 50% with action y, even selecting your action based on that is not a problem. If you lower your chances on purpose just to make B lose is a problem for sure. The problem here is simply how to prove it? And where is the line between a bad decision and intentional harming your own chances.

Maybe if this happens once, there is no chance to see it proved, If it happens more often and being reported, I see chances.

I do not think you get my point. The sprint itself I would have to accept. Saying it was on purpose and insult me (the way it was said was clearly aimed to hurt me, so it is an insult whatever was fined in the past or not) is not okay. It is one think to say it cannot be fined because there is no proof, having somebody admitting it and getting away with it is something else.

Most of the managers in the game are really nice, but we cannot tolerate insults, bullying or continuous aggressive language (Elaska is definatly not the worst in this respect). At some point it is necessary to do something to keep a nice atmosphere in the game to keep it fun and managers hooked to it. Draw a clear line what is allowed and what is damaging the game. I already have one team I will not interact in the race chat whatever he says. It is not fun to ride this way, still better than the alternatives. I do not want to be forced to extend the list. Up to I point I will just do this, but there might be a point where I question my commitment to the game, something others already did. Tolerating is for some teams will just embolden others to behave is similar ways. Clear rules and consistent enforcement can keep the game what is it and what we love.

What's this topic for?

The sprint? Or the word clown?