Classiques Belges

[Gipfelstuermer]

2x Baneberg 3 6
Kemmelberg from South-West: 3 8***
Kemmelberg from North: 1 7

[Robyklebt]

Mintact at 160

The hills and cobblestones: Basically only copied from the last years, no new analysis. Ok, now half way through, little analyis sometimes.. but when in doubt I just stick with my last analysis and ignore others (Jagerij is a good example why)

34-35: Paddestraat: It's a shorter version than often, and opposite direction than usually in the past. So -1** 0* (2** 1** usually)
51-52 Haaghoek -1*** 1***
53 Leberg 5
102-104 Lange Munte 1* 0** 0**
119-120 Haaghoek -1*** 1***
121 Leberg 5
128 Valkenberg 6
142 Eikenberg 6**
145 Wolvenberg 6
146-148 Hollestraat-Karel Martelstraat combination 2**0**-2*
150 Jagerj 0*
155 Molenberg 4**
159-160 Haaghoek -1*** 1***
161 Leberg 5
166 Berendries 7
168 Elverenberg/Vossehof 4
182 Mur 8****
186 Bosberg 6**

[Gipfelstuermer]

Boembeek 5 instead of Lepelstraat 1 5

Otherwise identical with 2024.


@RKL: Did you try to work on it and Editor didnt allow you? I saw some profiles created, but maybe there is a bug?

[Robyklebt]

@RKL: Did you try to work on it and Editor didnt allow you? I saw some profiles created, but maybe there is a bug?

Yes... see here:
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/RSFForum/v ... 00#p123500

Short version, you (as in "man") can't edit even the cloned profiles meaningfully unless they are originally by yourself. Can do stuff in the little container on the left until you save once. No copying, pasting and stuff at all.

[NBeullens]

I would consider that the thing on Bredene Koksijde classic wrong is. They first ride the Belvedere way and then the Ossuaire. The Ossuaire side is 100% more difficult then the Belvedere side. If u want to know some things about how to grade. I'm from belgium myself and whilst i may not have ridden anything outside of West-Flanders. I know a thing of two about it. Definetely about everything inside of West-Flanders

[Gipfelstuermer]

I would consider that the thing on Bredene Koksijde classic wrong is. They first ride the Belvedere way and then the Ossuaire. The Ossuaire side is 100% more difficult then the Belvedere side. If u want to know some things about how to grade. I'm from belgium myself and whilst i may not have ridden anything outside of West-Flanders. I know a thing of two about it. Definetely about everything inside of West-Flanders

Hi, that post up there is the 2024 version, not 2025. So, is 2025 same route as 2024? If no, what are the changes? If yes, which changes to the gradients do you suggest?

[NBeullens]

I would consider that the thing on Bredene Koksijde classic wrong is. They first ride the Belvedere way and then the Ossuaire. The Ossuaire side is 100% more difficult then the Belvedere side. If u want to know some things about how to grade. I'm from belgium myself and whilst i may not have ridden anything outside of West-Flanders. I know a thing of two about it. Definetely about everything inside of West-Flanders

Hi, that post up there is the 2024 version, not 2025. So, is 2025 same route as 2024? If no, what are the changes? If yes, which changes to the gradients do you suggest?

I don't think there are any chances but does somebody have a map where i can see the lap they do around the Kemmelberg itself to see if it is wrong or right the gradients

[Hansa]

I would consider that the thing on Bredene Koksijde classic wrong is. They first ride the Belvedere way and then the Ossuaire. The Ossuaire side is 100% more difficult then the Belvedere side. If u want to know some things about how to grade. I'm from belgium myself and whilst i may not have ridden anything outside of West-Flanders. I know a thing of two about it. Definetely about everything inside of West-Flanders

Hi, that post up there is the 2024 version, not 2025. So, is 2025 same route as 2024? If no, what are the changes? If yes, which changes to the gradients do you suggest?

I don't think there are any chances but does somebody have a map where i can see the lap they do around the Kemmelberg itself to see if it is wrong or right the gradients

https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/561521

check out here but this years profile is not avaible currently only last years

[NBeullens]

Okay so i watched back the official belgian broadcast of the race for a bit. Someone out it on youtube. And they do both the Belvedere (first) as the ossuaire (last) side.
I both rode those with my city bike (not a smart idea wouldnt recommend, ossuaire was to hard couldnt get over it). And i think it needs to be higher.

So i dont know about the belvedere side cause you first have a hill up but then just before the cobbles it goes down a bit. The cobbles themselves are 500 metres. They are pretty decent to ride on that's not the worst in the world and those 500 metres are somewhere between 10 and 11%. I dont know how that should translate into the game.

The ossuaire side is 100% harder and way misrepresented in this race (in the game). The entire hill is around 750m with an average gradient of 10.4 following Climbfinder. The thing is ± 530 metres (which the last 100 of are already 12+%) the cobbles start. Those ±220 metres are cobbled (about the same level cobbles as the other side) but are about 17 to 18% with the steepest 100m 21.1% and the steepest they say on the ground is 25/26. (They do say belvedere 24 but i dont know how or when, so dont believe it)

So Gipfel, i want to hear from you what you think should happen to the Kemmelberg with this new information. I dont know about the way they go to belvedere in Gent-Wevelgem so that downhill might be different. But for the Ossuaire on Gent-Wevelgem thos 750 metres do count but maybe not the first 250 of a km. So i dont know about Gent-Wevelgem but we could change it to whatever we get here together

[Gipfelstuermer]

So i dont know about the belvedere side cause you first have a hill up but then just before the cobbles it goes down a bit. The cobbles themselves are 500 metres. They are pretty decent to ride on that's not the worst in the world and those 500 metres are somewhere between 10 and 11%. I dont know how that should translate into the game.

The ossuaire side is 100% harder and way misrepresented in this race (in the game). The entire hill is around 750m with an average gradient of 10.4 following Climbfinder. The thing is ± 530 metres (which the last 100 of are already 12+%) the cobbles start. Those ±220 metres are cobbled (about the same level cobbles as the other side) but are about 17 to 18% with the steepest 100m 21.1% and the steepest they say on the ground is 25/26. (They do say belvedere 24 but i dont know how or when, so dont believe it)

So Gipfel, i want to hear from you what you think should happen to the Kemmelberg with this new information. I dont know about the way they go to belvedere in Gent-Wevelgem so that downhill might be different. But for the Ossuaire on Gent-Wevelgem thos 750 metres do count but maybe not the first 250 of a km. So i dont know about Gent-Wevelgem but we could change it to whatever we get here together

I'm getting totally confused about this.

I think what I called Kemmelberg from South-West, you call Belvedere side, and it is the same approach as in Gent-Wevelgem via Monteberg? Then it should be same percentages as in Gent-Wevelgem, where we have 6 -3 8***?

And I think what I called Kemmelberg from North, you call Ossuaire side, and it is also the same approach as in Gent-Wevelgem? Then it should be same percentages as in Gent-Wevelgem, where we have 10**?

But then you are saying Ossuaire is 100% harder than Belvedere? In terms of steepness or cobbles? 10 obviously not 100% harder than 8, but maybe ok? ** obviously less hard than ***, so that's what you mean? But you explain Belvedere is 500 metres between 10 and 11% vs. Ossuaire being 220m at 17%... so I see how in total Belvedere might still be harder because of the length of the sector....

If you have an opinion, just propose something. Now is the time

The gpx is online on their website now, btw, and it looks to me like 2025 is same route as 2024. So we only need to adjust percentages if you can confirm to me.

[NBeullens]

Okay I do think that the way the Gent-Wevelgem climbs are. I do not know if the few kms before the cobbles for Belvedere (South-West) are the same but that 8*** sound correct to me. Same with the Ossuaire (North) That side is named to the French military cemetery from WW1 on that side of the hill. Just before the cobbles you pass it. 10** sounds okay for me on paper.

I don't know who did the Gent-Wevelgem bit but it seems that guy did a good job. .

[Gipfelstuermer]

- New run-in, to Oudenaarde including Paddestraat 2** 1**
- New finish with a reversed circuit, makes the finish line 300m at +3% on cobbles according to LFR. I make it +2*.

[Gipfelstuermer]

With the Kemmelberg ratings from Gent Wevelgem.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Re-designed to get the correct length (no idea where they shortened it).



Same as last year.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Some changes vs. 24:

- Different route from Roeselare to Berchem (without Varent)
- Trieu-Hotond twice in same direction
- no Kanarieberg
- in total 5km shorter (in RSF only 4km)

[Gipfelstuermer]

This year start in Bruges.

So the first few difficulties are:

Oude Kwaremont 6*** 3***
Eikenberg 6**
Holleweg+Karel Martelstraat 2** 0** -2**
Jagerij 0*
Molenberg 4**
Paddestraat 2** 1**

After that, same final 70km as last year:

Berg Ten Houte 6**
Oude Kwaremont 6*** 3***
Paterberg 7**
Koppenberg 7****
Mariaborrestraat+Stationsberg 3*** -2***
Taaienberg 6**
Oude Kruisberg 3 6*
Oude Kwaremont 6*** 3***
Paterberg 7**

[Robyklebt]

E3



Same hills and pavé as last year, 2 exceptions:
Lippenhovenstaat in after Paddestraat
Eikenberg back instead of Ellestraat.
Mintact as last year on the Oude Kwaremont, this year 40 km from the goal, last year 43 or so.

Some minor changes in some other places, start, finish, between Kanarieberg and Kruisberg, so

33 Katteberg 5*
34-35 Holleweg 2** 1*
47-48 Paddestraat 2** 1**
49-50 Lippenhovestraat 0** -1* Paddestraat is 2.4 km, Lippenhovestraat 1.2, together 3.6, so made it 4 km, the last one only *.
88-90 La Houppe 2 4 6
98 Kanarieberg 8
105 Kruisberg 6**
114 Knokteberg 8
124 Kortekeer 7
129 Taaienberg 6**
136 Berg ten Stene 6
141 Boigneberg 5
147 Eikenberg 6**
152-153 Mariaborrestraat 2*** -2***
162 Kapelberg 5
166 Paterberg 7**
170-171 Oude Kwaremont 6*** 3***
178 Karnemelkbeekstraat 6
185-186 Varent 0* 1*
189 Tiegemberg 5

[Gipfelstuermer]

Changed section from Aywaille (km23) to Vielsalm (km149), with

Côte de Saint-Roch +11
Col de Haussire +5 +8 +6 +10

Last 100km identical with the recent past.

@RKL: On Fleche Wallone, there seem to be two changes: 1) different start is manageable but 2) change to the circuit is for experts... Do you have time for that perhaps?

[Robyklebt]

Yes yes... I can do the Flèche. Before the change of month should be early enough though.