Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

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Which tour should be rode this year?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:43 pm

Avaya's Tour
16
35%
Woddeltown's Tour
6
13%
Gipelstürmer's Tour
24
52%
 
Total votes: 46

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Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Avaya » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:47 pm

Here is a suggestion for the Germany Tour 2011, cause Aux was wondering if we would draw one, cause Allagen might seem to strike this year.

Image

The tour starts in the capital of Germany, Berlin along a lake and a river. Its a solely flat Team Time Trial, to mix the General Classement at the beginning.

Image

The second stage brings the riders to northern Germany along the baltic sea from Rostock via Lübeck to Kiel where I would count on a mass sprint. On the other hand a group could go trough, cause you will find breakaways, which will fight for the first mountain points.

Image

The third stage takes also place in northern germany, but along the north sea from Hamburg to Wilhelmshaven. Its kinda flat too like the second stage and you also find one mountain cat. 3. So likely it will end in a mass sprint, but you cant be that sure.

Image

The fourth stage starts in good old Westphalia in western Germany, in a bicycle-exited city called Münster. The stage goes through the Ruhr Valley into the Sauerland, where you find the first biggs hills. Today we probably won't see a mass sprint. Either a group will win or the Classicsprints, cause the riders have to pass 3 Mountains cat. 3 and 1 mountain cat. 2.

Image

The sprinter will thank good, that they have a last flat stage today. But they will be a bit tired, cause yesterday was a bit harder than the first 3 stages. The stage starts in Gießen and goes to the south of Germany to Karlsruhe. You likely will see a massprint today, but the last for sure.

Image

The is a day for breakaway's and classics. The stage starts in Saarbrücken and the riders will ride about 50 km through France until they arrive Germany again. Until km 130 its kinda flat but then the riders have to climb on top of the seekopf a cat. 2 mountain. We will see some attacks here for sure, so the stage winnder won't be a sprinter today. The stage ends in Rottenburg at the Neckar with a flat end.

Image

Today it's the day for the General Classements Guys, the riders have to pass 3 mountains in the Schwarzwald, 2 cat. 2 and a finish on the Feldberg, a cat 1 mountain with gradients about 10%. Today the classement will separate the wheat from the chaff. But we probably won't see a preliminary decision.

Image

The 8th stage is a Individual Time Trial along the Bodensee where the Time Trial Guys can make some time against the real Climbers. But the Time Trial isn't that flat, its kinda hilly, which makes the stage a bit more exciting.

Image

So here we have the royal-stage of the German Tour 2011. The stage starts in Kempten in South Germany and goes through the Alps to Austria, the third Country the riders passed during the tour. The field has to pass 2 big mountains, 1 cat. 1 the Heiterwand and the stage ends in Ischgl where the riders have to overcome a 15% gradient and average of about 10 %. Just the real Climber will reach the mountain first, and if there is some TT Guy, who isnt that fit, he will lose a lot of time. So the stage is very interesting and the tour will probably decided today.


To sum up, I can say that it's a kinda nice tour, Sprinters have their 3 Stages to probably make the decision for the Green jersey, the classics have 2, maybe 3 stages to win a stage. There are 2 Time Trials, 1 Team and 1 Individual, to compensate some time before the mountains and the climber and GC-Guys have 2 mountain finishes. The riders also see a lot of Germany, starting in the Capital, over the North to the West and then to the Alps.


i'm open to criticism and suggestions. :)

greets ava
Last edited by Avaya on Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by auxilium torino » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:32 am

stage 2 , Bornhoved, KoM, 1 km. to early???maybe at 162 is better ;)
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Avaya » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:44 am

ah, thx. :D i'm editing at the moment, and write some things to the stages. so if you find another mistake, just tell me. :)

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Woddeltown Team » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:03 pm

Hier ist mein Vorschlag für eine Deutschland-Tour mit neun Etappen
My suggestion for a German Tour

save: wogerman1
Image
Teamzeitfahren in München.
Beginnend am Sendlinger Tor ziehen die Mannschaften nach Süden und passieren Pullach und Grünwald.
Dann geht es in Richtung Osten über Taufkirchen nach Ottobrunn, ehe die Strecke wieder in Richtung München strebt.
Über Neubiberg, Perlach und Haidhausen erreicht man dann wieder die Innenstadt mit dem Ziel am Isartor.

Team Tim Trial at Munich.
The stage begins at the Sendlinger Tor and is directing to the South passing Pullach and Grünwald.
At Grünwald we go east to Taufkirchen and Ottobrunn before the route is directing back to Munich.
From Neubiberg to Perlach to Haidhausen and after it to the centre of Munich with the Finish at Isartor.

save:wogerman2
Image
Von München geht es in Richtung Alpen.
Zunächst leicht Bergauf östlich des Starnberger Sees in Richtung Wolfratshausen, ehe die Strecke nach Bad Tölz abbiegt.
Über Tölz geht es weiter ins Alpenvorland und mit dem Achernpaß wartet die erste Bergwertung der Tour. In einer Schleife geht es über
Wildbad Kreuth in Richtung Tegernsee zur nächsten Bergwertung am Irschenberg. Nach der Abfahrt vom Irschenberg geht es in das Tal des Inns
mit dem zweiten Sprint in Rosenheim und der 30km langen fast ebenen Abfahrt bis nach Kiefersfelden.

From Munich to the alps.
At the beginning it goes light uphill in the east oft the Starnberg Lake direcht Wolfratshausen and Bad Tölz with the 1st sprint of the tour.
From Tölz the stage is directing south to the Alpine Foreland before the stage describes a loop and goes back to the north. The "Achernpaß" is the
1st Mountain classification of the tour and the stage is directing to the Tegern Lake. Arriving Irschenberg with the 2nd MC.
After downhill to Rosenheim the stage becomes very flat with the finisch at Kiefersfelden.


save: wogerman3
Image
Es geht ins Gebirge, was man schon an der langen Anfahrt von Rosenheim in Richtung Walchsee merkt. Denn dort wartet die erste Wertung des
Tages auf der Wildbichler Landstraße. Vorbei am Walchsee geht es hinab in den Wintersportort Ruhpolding. Vorbei an Sulzbach geht es dann auf die Alpenstraße, wo es erst mal
ein gutes Stück bergab geht. Mit dem Aufstieg zum Taubensee geht es los und die Fahrer erreichen das Gebirge. Nach der Abfahrt nach Berchtesgarden beginnt sofort
der Aufstieg auf die Rossfeld-Ringstraße. Hier trennt sich die Spreu vom Weizen. Es geht dann hinunter nach Österreich und nach der Fahrt durch das Tal der Salzach geht es auf den schweren Schlussanstieg nach Werfenweng.

Today it is mountain time what can be seen with the long journey to the Walchsee. There is the 1st MC of the day.
Passing the Walchsee the road goes to the ski resort of Ruhpolding. Passing the uphill to Taubensee the riders go to Berchtesgarden. Passing the Obersalzberg the
riders will take the Rossfeld-Ringstraße with enormous uphills. The downhill is directing to Austria and after riding through the Valley of Salzach the peloton takes the hard
closing climb to Werfenweng.

save: wogerman4
Image
Die längste Etappe meiner Tour.
Von Bischofshofen geht es sofort hinauf auf die Hochkönigstraße mit Steigungsspitzen von 13%. Nach der Abfahrt über Dienten geht es in Richtung Zell am See, vorbei
an Kaprun. Bei Klausen wartet dann mit dem Pass Thurn die zweite Wertung des Tages, ehe es dann über Kitzbühle ins Inntal geht. In Wörgl wartet die einzige Sprintwertung
Dort geht es für etwa 25 km meist entlang des Inns relativ flach zu bevor die Strecke das Inntal verlässt und über den Achensee wieder in Richtung Deutschland führt. Danach geht es relativ wellig über Wallgau bis zum Ziel nach Mittenwald.

The longest stage of the tour.
From Bischofshofen the stage goes directly uphill onto the Hochkönigstraße with slopes up to 13%. After downhill it goes via Dienten to Zell am See, passing Kaprun.
At Klausen the 2nd Mountain Stage is waiting, the Pass Thurn. From there the stage goes downhill via Kitzbühel into the valley of the river Inn. At Wörgl a sprint is proceeded.
For 25km the stage becomes really flat along the inn before the peloton is leaving it to the north. Via Achensee the stage goes to Germany with an undulatin territory via Wallgau to the finish at Mittenwald.

save: wogerman5
Image
Die Tour verlässt die Alpen und von Kempten aus geht es zumeist bergab.
Zu Beginn ist zwar ein Anstieg zu bewältigen, doch ab dem Heusteig zeigt die Nadel nach unten. Über Memmingen und Ulm geht es entlang der Brenz nach Heidenheim und von dort über Aalen ins Ziel nach Memmingen.

The tour is leaving the Alps and from Kempten it will go downhill.
At the beginning there is the uphill at Heusteig but from thereone it goes straight downhill. Via Memmingen and Ulm the stage goes along the river Brenz to Heidenheim and from there via Aalen to the finish at Memmingen.

save: wogerman6
Image
Von Würzburg geht es durch den Spessart.
Schon am Stadtausgang findet man den ersten Berg, danach geht es relativ flach durch die Täler bis Lohr am Main.
Es beginnt der Aufstieg auf die Spessart-Höhenstraße. Über Bad Orb und Bad Soden beschreibt die Strecke zwei Bögen mit verschienden Höhen und Hügeln, bevor es auf den
letzten Kilometern weitesgehend flach nach Fulda geht.

From Würzburg through Spessart.
At the city board of Würzburg the 1st little mountain is arrived before it the stage becomes flat onto Lohr am Main.
After Lohr the uphill on the Spessart-Höhenstraße begins. Via Bad Orb and Bad Soden the route describe to loops with different hills and Height before there are flat kilometres at the end to the finish at Fulda.

save: wogerman7
Image
Auf historischen Pfaden wandelt die 7. Etappe.
Von Bad Hersfeld geht es wellig vorbei an Wartburg und Eisenach, hinein nach Erfurt und Weimar. In Weimar warten 2 Kopfsteinpflaster-Kilometer durch die historische Innenstadt. Danach geht es durch die letzten Hügel des Thüringer Waldes und ab ins Ziel nach Jena.

The 7th stage takes par on historical routes.
From Bad Hersfeld it is very undulating along the Wartburg and Eisenach, onto Erfurt and Weimar. In Goethe-City zwo kilometres of paves are waiting in the historical city centre. Leaving Weimar it will also be undulating and then downhill to the city of Jena.

save: wogerman8
Image
Ein Zeitfahren von Leipzig nach Halle ohne große Höhepunkte.

A timetrial from Leipzig to Halle without any highlights.

save: wogerman9
Image
Die letzte Etappe in die Hauptstadt.
Von Dessau geht es über Roßlau nach Coswig und von dort ohne Abstecher nach Nordost. Über Potsdam geht es dann auf die Hauptstadt, wo kurz vor der Stadtgrenze noch
die letzte Bergwertung der Tour auf der Insel wartet. Ab in die Berliner City, ein kleiner Kurs durch den Tiergarten und das Hansaviertel und dann geht es schnugerade durch den Tiergarten zum Brandenburger Tor, wo das Ziel ist.

Last stage to the capital of Germany.
From Dessau the stage goes to Coswig via Roßlau and then straight to the northeast. Via Potsdam the peloton arrives the capital, but before the boards of Berlin the Pfaueninsel is waiting with the last mountain of the tour. Then it goes direct to the city of Berlin, a little course in Tiergarten and Hansaviertel is to be solved but then it goes through Tiergarten to Brandenburger Tor, where the Finish is.

So Leute, Feuer frei, Kritik gern gesehen.

Let's go guys, criticism is not forbidden.
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by auxilium torino » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:57 pm

For sure the mountain arrive at stage 3 is to early...
second:KoM value, I don't like it
stage 2 Achenpass, cat.3 , not 2
stage 3 HC at end, and Rossfeld cat. 2 or 1 would be better, Taubensee no more then cat. 3
....Wildbichler maybe better one sprint or nothing
stage 4 Pass thurn KoM wrong km....
another error, in my opinion...after stage 4 fight for red i ended...to early, risk for more offliner players(looking 10 km. and gone)...you must give more intrest to the whole tour

The other are ok...this is my opinion...but the stage 8 or 9 must decide yellow and red, maybe green also...in this moment you decide yellow at stage 3 and red at stage 5...and after?
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by flockmastoR » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:07 pm

Pass thurn, was there just 3 weeks ago :D
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Woddeltown Team » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:12 pm

Thx for the critics
auxilium torino wrote:For sure the mountain arrive at stage 3 is to early...
second:KoM value, I don't like it
KoM Value, what do you mean by that?
auxilium torino wrote: stage 2 Achenpass, cat.3 , not 2
Yesterday i had this question, when i created it...
i am pretty unsure which cat it is...
stage 3 HC at end, and Rossfeld cat. 2 or 1 would be better, Taubensee no more then cat. 3
....Wildbichler maybe better one sprint or nothing
I expected HC at the end of the stage but unless..the average slope at the end is 7,2%, less then at Rossfeld (8,3%)
I guess if we change something, then both challenges to HC or both to 1.
Taubensee 3 with slopes up to 10%?
stage 4 Pass thurn KoM wrong km....
Corrected, one km earlier..thx
another error, in my opinion...after stage 4 fight for red i ended...to early, risk for more offliner players(looking 10 km. and gone)...you must give more intrest to the whole tour

The other are ok...this is my opinion...but the stage 8 or 9 must decide yellow and red, maybe green also...in this moment you decide yellow at stage 3 and red at stage 5...and after?
With red you maybe right..
green will be decided (hopefully) at the last stage
Yellow...difficult...if there isn't a time trial rider with good mountain values you are right with stage 3 or maybe 4.
But if there is a time trialist with mountain 75 or sth like that, he can win yellow..maybe.

but if we mix the stages i created up, will it be better?
For example
1) Dessau - Berlin
2) Leipzig - Halle as Team Time Trial
3) Jena - Bad Hersfeld (same route, other direction)
4) Fulda - Würzburg (other direction)
5) Munich - Kiefersfelden
6) Rosenheim - Werfenweng
7.) Bischofshofen - Mittenwald
8.) Kempten - Augsburg (must be created)
9.) Munich ITT
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by auxilium torino » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:30 pm

KoM value i mean the mountain Cat, like i explain after...
For sure the Itt can decide the race, but we love that at decide the Tour must be a really race, mountain stage for example, while the manager is more important.I would like an ITT at stage 7 and a Mountain at stage 8, then last stage for sprinter like champ d'Elisee would be nice.or at stage 7 an half stage ITT and an half stage flat or Middle mountain, would also be intresting, maybe Middle Mountain more then Flat, when at the stage 8 is an HC race.
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Woddeltown Team » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:34 pm

If i get bored todays evening, i will see another option^^
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by olmania » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:41 pm

Wait, I'm lost ! I missed something somewhere !
You want to do a selection between different "fantasy Germany Tour" and try to introduce one in the calendar during the Autumn ?

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Avaya » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:12 pm

yeah, its a kind of competition. you can make a suggestion here in this thread and at the end of the week leso, or another person decide which tour will be rode.
probably from 26.9-4.10 after the wm, cause there are no parallel important races

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:54 pm

Here is my application for the Germany Tour. It's no mass production via automation, it's fine handwork ;)
---------

The Map
Image

The Facts:
  • - 9 stages
    • - 1 TTT
      - 1 ITT
      - 3 flat
      - 2 middle mountain
      - 2 mountain, HC
    - Distance: 1.310km (11.300hm (metres in altitude)); 774min
    - Climate: Europe, Autumn
    - mountains classification:
    • - 2x cat1
      - 1x cat2
      - 4x cat3
      - 13x cat4
    - 1 Intermediate sprint per stage

The Stages
Stage 1 (TTT)
Image
7km (80hm); 7min
complete stage: 0,3,-2,1,1,1,2

Stage 2 (flat, pave)
Image
177km (280hm); 108min
pave: 4km *; 2km ** (Wismar), 1km *** (Klütz)
last 10km: 0,-1,0,0,0,0,-1,0,0,0

Stage 3 (flat)
Image
212km (530hm); 112min
last 10km: 0,0,0,0,1,0,1,1,3,3

Stage 4 (middle mountain)
Image
190km (1.890hm); 106min
Ochsenkopf: 1,2,5,4,6,6 (cat4)
Wildewiese: 2,2,3,6,6,(cat4)
Glinge: 2,4,2,5,6,5 (cat4)
Hülschotten: 3,7,7,4 (cat4)
last 10km: -1,-2,-3,-3,-2,-2,-1,-1,-1,1

Stage 5 (ITT)
Image
35km (160hm); 35min
complete stage: 0,1,-2,-1,0,1,1,1,1,1,0,-1,0,0,1,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,0,-1,1,2,1,0,-1,-1,2,-1,1,-1,2,0,0

Stage 6 (flat)
Image
158km (680hm); 90min
cat4-climb: 3,2,4,5,4
last 10km: 0,0,0,0,-1,0,1,0,0,1

Stage 7 (middle mountain)
Image
179km (2.450hm); 107min
cat4-climb: 3,5,5,6
Enzklösterle: 6,5,5,4,10,11,9,5,6,5,5,2 (cat2)
cat4-climb: 9,8,8
cat4-climb: 5,5,7,5,3,3
cat4-climb: 3,7,6,4,4
cat4-climb: 1,1,4,7,6,
last10km: -4,-3,-5,-5,-7,-6,-4,-4,-3,-1

Stage 8 (mountain, hc)
Image
194km (3.030hm); 110min
Pfänder: 8,9,8,3,7,4 (cat3)
Lorenapass: 6,8,6,2,3,4,6,10,9,5 (cat3)
Riedbergpass: …,3,8,8,10,5 (cat1)
Oberjoch: 4,4,4,5,4,5,6 (cat3)
last 10km: 0,-1,-3,-2,-2,-1,-1,1,2,-1

Stage 9 (mountain, hc)
Image
158km (2.200hm); 97min
Achenpass: 3,3,5,4 (cat4)
Moni-Alm: 2,6,7,5,5 (cat4)
Spitzingsee: 5,5,5,4 (cat4)
Sudelfeldpass: 8,7,8,9 (cat3)
Spitzsteinhaus: 5,12,10,8,11,9,6,8,10 (cat1)

---------
That's it. So I wanna see your critique.
And one question: Does leso decide on his own or will there be a voting? I prefer direct democracy here ;)
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by iBanesto » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:37 am

Three suggestions and three times we get a tour that has an early TTT, a semi-long TT later on and a mountaintop finish in Austria. Where's the creativity?

Woddeltown: So much time trialing... almost 80 Km? Werfenweng and maybe Jena the only other selective stages. The other stages just offer sprint opportunities. Definitly not my cup of tea.

Gipfel: Least TT Kms! Many stages that could offer nice racing, Dassow, Weilheim, Plettenberg. Because of less TT, the pave stage and just one mountaintop finish this probably is the most open one in terms of GC.

Avaya: The Feldberg stage is the best mountain stage so far. But it's not well placed on the day before the ITT. Siegen is an interesting stage, not so sure about the rest.

My judgement so far:

1. Gipfel
2. Avaya
3. Woddel

with the sprinter's choice award going to:
Woddel

the TTist's choice award going to:
Woddel

and the climber's choice award going to:
Avaya

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by auxilium torino » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:14 pm

i think that the only important is that we have a Germany tour
thanks for your work, and now, i think, at best, let this week the comunity decide wich tour would ride...

i am for a poll!
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by lesossies » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:44 pm

auxilium torino wrote:i am for a poll!
I too

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by lesossies » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:10 pm

OK
Gipfelstürmer´s Tour is the winner.
I programm it now that the teams have more time for the inscription.

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by schokolade » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:10 am

noch kürzer kann man eine 9 tages tour nicht einbauen??....

gut das ihr bei sonen touren nie an eine form denkt oder das teams dies gern auf sowas legen würden.....

und stage 4 is laut rennplanung flach aber hier wird sie wie eig auch zurecht mittelschwere etappe gewertet...

oder ist es eine flachetappe wen 10km von den letzten 105km 0% haben und der rest (95km) hoch und runter gehen mit zum teil 3-4km die durchgehend steigungen haben wo sogar bergfahrer gut wechkommen und es massive siebe geben kann===???===
Last edited by schokolade on Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:14 am

lesossies wrote:OK
Gipfelstürmer´s Tour is the winner.
I programm it now that the teams have more time for the inscription.
Thanks for voting :)
Hopefully there will be some exciting stages and fights for the tour victory.

edit: Stage4 should be mittelschwer/middle mountain. Don't know if it was my mistake or someone else's...
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by flockmastoR » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:39 pm

schokolade wrote:noch kürzer kann man eine 9 tages tour nicht einbauen??....

gut das ihr bei sonen touren nie an eine form denkt oder das teams dies gern auf sowas legen würden.....

und stage 4 is laut rennplanung flach aber hier wird sie wie eig auch zurecht mittelschwere etappe gewertet...

oder ist es eine flachetappe wen 10km von den letzten 105km 0% haben und der rest (95km) hoch und runter gehen mit zum teil 3-4km die durchgehend steigungen haben wo sogar bergfahrer gut wechkommen und es massive siebe geben kann===???===
auch nur am pöbeln der Schokoladentyp.

a) stand nicht fest dass die Tour überhaupt gefahren wird (vor dem Saisonwechsel) und wurde nur durch die eigeninitiative einiger Zeichner relativ spät überhaupt gezeichnet wurde
b) Ist es auch nur ne Fantasyrundfahrt auf die man sowieso keine Form legen muss
c) sollte man den Zeichnern überlassen wie sie ihre Etappen bezeichnen wollen und flach muss ja auch nicht immer heißen dass es 100%ig ein Massensprint werden muss, außerdem wurde ja schon erwähnt dass es eigentlich middle mountain sein sollte
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sylvainmeteo
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by sylvainmeteo » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:23 pm

A good choice, we will have a good fight for GC, climbers vs TT guys ^^
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schokolade
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by schokolade » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:33 pm

flockmastoR wrote: c) sollte man den Zeichnern überlassen wie sie ihre Etappen bezeichnen wollen und flach muss ja auch nicht immer heißen dass es 100%ig ein Massensprint werden muss, außerdem wurde ja schon erwähnt dass es eigentlich middle mountain sein sollte
deswegen sage ich ja sollte man das noch ändern das es mittel ist und nicht flach... geht ja auch um zeit bonis und um das grüne trikot... wäre ein sehr krasser vorteil wen auf so einer mittel etappe ein klasiker evt die volle punktzahl und auch die zeit bonis für ein flach rennen bekommt obwohl es alles andere als eine flachetappe ist....


und wieso legt man da fantasyrennen dann nicht einfach auf anfang oktober?? so das man am ende des monats die form legen kann ist ja keine kleine rundfahrt..... wie die meisten 3-5 tage dinger die man einfach mal so mitnimmt... es geht da um sehr viele punkte und gelder

Wookie
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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Wookie » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:46 pm

Dann kann man auch Etappe 8 zu einer mittl. Bergetappe machen.
Klar gehts da viel hoch und runter, aber kein wirklich steiler und langer Berg, schon gar nicht auf den letzten 45km.

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Re: Germany Tour 2011 - Suggestions

Post by Samurais » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:33 pm

Wer Form noch auf Vuelta hatte wird hier sich eh freuen . Mich freuts dass so eine tour aus dem nichts kommt nochma was schönes am ende des Monats also ich sag nur eins dazu ,öfters solche überraschungen ^^

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