March 2024

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF
March 2024

Races to be designed:
Paris-Nice >>> OL
Tirreno-Adriatico >>> Lenny
Volta Ciclista a Catalunya >>> Schartner
Belgian Waffle Ride Arizona >>> Gip

Races to be checked:
Grand Prix Criquielion >>> Gip
Strade Bianche >>> Gip
Grote prijs Jean - Pierre Monseré >>> Gip
Rhodes GP >>> Gip
Danilith Nokere Koerse >>> Gip
Milano - Torino >>> Gip
Grand Prix de Denain >>> OL
Bredene Koksijde Classic
Milano-Sanremo >>> RKL
Cholet Agglo Tour >>> OL
Classic Loire Atlantique >>> Gip
Classic Brugge-De Panne >>> Gip
E3 Harelbeke >>> Gip
Gent-Wevelgem >>> Gip
La Roue Tourangelle Centre Val de Loire >>> OL
Dwars door Vlaanderen >>> Gip
Paris - Camembert >>> OL
La Route Adélie de VItré >>> OL
Gran Premio Miguel Indurain >>> Gip
Volta Limburg Classic >>> Schartner
Ronde van Vlaanderen >>> Gip


Legend
BLUE = Designer found
GREEN = DONE

[Gipfelstuermer]

February is a short month (even though 1 day longer this year), so it's good to have the Preview early. Some thoughts:

PN II TA: Participation much better than in previous year, but for now, 4 editions still seems better than 5 or 6 to have lots of teams per race.

Catalunya: On the one hand, it's a World Tour race, too, so 4 editions makes sense here as well. On the other hand, parallel programme much more attractive, so perhaps 3 editions enough as with UAE? Most likely cut would be morning, so maybe speak up if you want ride Catalunya in the morning to confirm

Classics: Generally, 5 editions on weekdays and 4 editions on weekends, remains the rule.


For many races, times rotated from last year, but to be discussed and can be changed.

[lennylenny]

Strade Bianchi needs a new design, 30km longer according to LFR
will leave that one to a Pave/Gravel expert

can do Tirreno later this week

[olmania]

I will design PN. and check the french races when details will be online

[Robyklebt]

Final PDF

Preview I guess....

PN II TA: Participation much better than in previous year, but for now, 4 editions still seems better than 5 or 6 to have lots of teams per race.

Agreed!

Catalunya: On the one hand, it's a World Tour race, too, so 4 editions makes sense here as well. On the other hand, parallel programme much more attractive, so perhaps 3 editions enough as with UAE? Most likely cut would be morning, so maybe speak up if you want ride Catalunya in the morning to confirm

I would probably go for 3 editions, while the numbers seem up, they are not up to a point where we have good groups for 8 races I fear. Ok, 7 races not a big difference... But the one to cut shouldn't be the morning, that was the one cut last year.

2021: Afternoon
2022: Early evening
2023: Morning.

Would be the afternoon's turn IMO. And if not, then still not the morning, IMO 2 years in a row cut the same time not good.
In the past used to be Catalunya-Pais Vasco-Romandie, all 3 editions, morning/afternoon/early evening each miss out on one, continuing the same way, continuing the rotation would mean Catalunya no afternoon, Pais Vasco no morning, Romandie no early evening. Of course the parallel program for those 2 races is nowhere near the one for Catalunya, so if you want to offer 4 editions again for those 2, then other ways to decide which time is cut for Catalunya are needed. But think what was cut last year still should play into it, so not the morning. But what criteria to use? Up to you. Numbers lately? Minor tours cut when? (But then IMO UAE still is a bad one, while it's WT, it's fake WT really, at the level of stuff like Andalucia or Algarve, not Catalunya. Better "grouping" would be with Pologne and Renewi, who of course are still not on Catalunya level, but closer, in case they are not offered 4 times this year (doubt they were lately, but not checking), maybe then plan the cancellations with them... Or go for 4 editions after all. But whatever you do I still think cutting the morning is the worst idea!

Classics: Generally, 5 editions on weekdays and 4 editions on weekends, remains the rule.

Are the numbers high enough to get big enough groups? Only really concerns Milano Torino and Dwars... the ones parallel to Catalunya are already at 4, rightly so.
Clasica Jaen today will get something between 50 and 60 teams I guess, last year.. grr, annoying cross race there and Oman parallel... damn. Ok, Muscat classic, this year something parallel, last year nothing, 4 editions got 48 teams, so not much less than Jaen this year? Jaen with gravel might put some people off, maybe better to look at tomorrow, "normal" race...
But maybe would be sensible to have only 4 editions for cat 4+ on weekdays as well? 1 day races tend to attract fewer people than stage races anyway normally....But ok, you know the numbers. I'd prefer bigger groups for classics for sure.

Loire Atlantique missing?

[Gipfelstuermer]

Preview, yes, yes! So keep commenting please!

Catalunya no afternoon, Pais Vasco no morning, Romandie no early evening. Of course the parallel program for those 2 races is nowhere near the one for Catalunya, so if you want to offer 4 editions again for those 2, then other ways to decide which time is cut for Catalunya are needed. But think what was cut last year still should play into it, so not the morning. But what criteria to use? Up to you. Numbers lately? Minor tours cut when?

Those two criteria I used. Morning numbers not very high recently (see Valenciana, but OK, maybe Besseges was just more popular in terms of the profile). And minor tours cut recently were UAE (afternoon cut) and Provence (only one evening edition 20h). Not the best comparables in terms of category, but very recent comparables. The combo with Pais Vasco and Romandie would be fair, but as you mention 4 editions are more likely for them.

So it's undecided for now. Can be 4 editions. Or 3 editions with morning cut. Or 3 editions with afternoon cut (noting that the next important cuts won't be afternoon then). Luckily we have one more criterium! Feedback here! Whoever wants to ride Catalunya, tell us, and tell us at what time, too!

Only really concerns Milano Torino and Dwars...

Confident on them having 5 editions, because we have the stats nowadays.

Race participants on weekdays without tours and 5 one day races:

2/12/2024: 53
2/07/2024: 62
2/05/2024: 71
1/30/2024: 63
1/29/2024: 69
1/26/2024: 60
1/25/2024: 70
1/24/2024: 66
1/15/2024: 57

Average: 63.4, so >12 teams on average would be good for Milano Torino and DDV. Jaen btw the outlier because of what you mentioned (Gravel) and also because of Provence ending the day before, so likely some riders - and managers - fatigued. And also because of carnival in some regions presumably.

Loire Atlantique missing?

Parallel to MSR and next day is Cholet. But could be added on the Monday. Two days late and then parallel to Catalunya not ideal, but can be done. Would you have time to check/design it?

[Robyklebt]

Parallel to MSR and next day is Cholet. But could be added on the Monday. Two days late and then parallel to Catalunya not ideal, but can be done. Would you have time to check/design it?

No

But can do the adjustments for Milano Sanremo (5km less, different start)

[Gipfelstuermer]

One loop before the final added, including

new:
Strada del Castagno 1*
Montechiaro 0* -2* 0*

twice:
Colle Pinzuto 6** 3**
Le Tolfe 5**

Mintact: km180 at a +6/+5 (which on LFR is 1.9km @5.5%), but it could be earlier, too, at km 166, for the first Colle Pinzuto / Le Tolfe.

[American Cycling Club]

How do I make the stage profiles?

[flockmastoR]

How do I make the stage profiles?

In-game: Click on "More"->"Editor". Right now there is the "Profil Editor" were you create and modify the profil (enter a meaningful profileId, no spaces allowed there, this is not the full Race name). Usually you create it from a gpx file (downloaded from La Flamme Rouge website or created yourself with a route building tool such as plotarout.com). You adjust the "Incline %" per km for important climbs/km as the auto generated % may be inaccurate sometimes. You add informations on IS/KOM and city names. If you are happy with your design you "Start Review". Next step is that you create the race in the "Race" tab. There you link the profileId (Copy&Paste) and add further information. If it is a real race the date is fixed and can be seen in the pdf. If it is a fantasy one day race I, as calendar admin, will chose a free spot where it is ridden.

I encourage you to start designing one day fantasy races to get familiar with the process.

Please use viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7366#p116463 or viewtopic.php?f=38&t=775&p=119578#p119578 for further information and questions. As this is the thread to discuss the schedule of the races.

Note to myself: Add the "Instructions" to in-game Editor

[lennylenny]

which version of Tirreno do we want?

LFR has stage 1 as a 10km flat stage, everything else classified as non-TT stages aswell

official website has stage 1 as a ITT but also the 220km long stage 3 as a ITT

planning to do the sensible way of stage 1 ITT, all other stages as non-TT

[Gipfelstuermer]

Same start and finish as 2023, so probably same race (to be confirmed).



New for us (unfortunately parellel to PN and TA)



Lap is almost identical, but 0.7km longer this year... Total 200,6 instead of 198,6. In C4F 199. So if I change it by 1km, we are 202km, which is just as good or bad as 199km when the race is 200,6.... so I leave it unchanged.



Same es 2023



See Classiques Belges Thread



Same as 2023, but this time without the neutralized start, so 6km shorter.

[Schartner Bombe]

Info for EROICA SOUTH AFRICA

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9530&start=25#p119030

[zizou]

Please don’t cut the morning or at least do a very early afternoon edition in exchange. 12h or 13h would be nice than.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Different ways out of Harelbeke and into Harelbeke, also two sections in the middle changed, but no change to the bergs and pave sections.

In total 5km longer officially (207.5 instead of 202.5) and 3km longer in C4F (208 instead of 205).

[olmania]

Feel free to adapt categorization (flat/hilly/mountain) if more info is provided about that later. I did my best for now, according to my interpretation of the design and the race.



I am no pavé expert, but the * rating of the website seemed a little exaggerated. I compared with recent google street views (I downgraded 2 pavé sectors as they seemed "brand new" from views of late 2023. and I also looked at flamme rouge ratings to try to adapt it consequently when it made sense to me. Also, re-worked the km/km % in the second half of the race to truly feel the short inclines.
There is a -3% with ***; I changed it to -2%. The limit for the dh pavé issue is between -3 and -2, right ?

[Gipfelstuermer]

I am no pavé expert, but the * rating of the website seemed a little exaggerated. I compared with recent google street views (I downgraded 2 pavé sectors as they seemed "brand new" from views of late 2023. and I also looked at flamme rouge ratings to try to adapt it consequently when it made sense to me. Also, re-worked the km/km % in the second half of the race to truly feel the short inclines.
There is a -3% with ***; I changed it to -2%. The limit for the dh pavé issue is between -3 and -2, right ?

Yes, from -3% the pavé is buggy/unrealistic. I think usually designers leave it out then, so no pavé on that km but if -2% seems realistic, then it is another possible solution, I'd say. Maybe adjust the 1% downwards on the km before or after then.


Your pavé ratings look reasonable at first sight. If you want to be very precise, we have this thread on pavé:

The Bible of Cobbles : The Cobbledex

For Belgium (not the case here but I want to provide the info), there is another thread:

Classiques Belges

You can compare the sectors if you find them in these threads, and of course you can also compare with the previous editions. The other thing, I do, sometimes I just type the name of the sector in the forum search, e.g. "Viesly" and see if it has been mentioned before. Sometimes you find a discussion about the pavé rating.

Some consistency from year to year is nice (if the same sectors are in the same race). But if there is a good reason to change a pavé rating, it can also be changed.

[olmania]

Thanks for the info Gip !

Re-designed Cholet Agglo Tour (with new name). Makes more sense like that to me, with a deserved 5% in the final circuit (the climb is over 1kms, but with a flatish section before a final 10% short bump). Still something for sprinters, but hard to have a huge mass sprint because of the short climbs in the final circuit. Also because the final circuit is super technical. Final circuit is now -1/3/-3/5/-4/-1/1
206kms here, vs 205kms IRL. Mintackt 2 laps before finish line.



Updated Paris Camembert as there are minor changes of the route. Also updated the climbs as there is now detailed data about the % and lenght of each key climb.


Updated the route of Vitré, as there are two climbs in the first long lap (both 4%, maybe second one deserves a 5%) and only one was visible in previous design. Also, it was 5% in the first loop and 4% in the second loop ... for the same climb, in the previous design. Here, all 4%. Did a km by km work, hard choices, maybe more MS friendly in RSF than IRL. Open to adapt it if required !


Roue Tourangelle info will be published the 20/02.

[Bugatti]

Moin,

is it possible to do Tirreno-Adriatico at 9h?
I will ride there and a start at 9h is much more comfortable for me

[Robyklebt]

Milano-Sanremo done. Just the first 44 km new, no review of all the capi etc.

[Gipfelstuermer]

And the other race starting from Milano but not starting from Milano. Same as 2023.

[lennylenny]

Tirreno done for now, but couldn't find any mountain classifications so did what i think is best, open for discussion there

[team fl]

Isn't it a bit too much pavé in March having a Waffle Race and an Eroica race next too all these pavé classics?

[Robyklebt]

Tirreno:

I think they usually just have 1 or 2 categories? Looking at last year and their site this year I'd guess everything cat 3 except the 2 climbs where there's an "S" in the green GPM sign, that should be cat 1 then? Monte Petrano and San Giacomo.

Milano-Torino: Are we 100% sure it's the same route as last year? Same start town is all I found on their site. Which doesn't guarantee that the rest is the same. I'd propose to wait to put it in the calendar (preview is ok) until we have confirmation that it is indeed the same parcours

[Gipfelstuermer]

Milano-Torino: Are we 100% sure it's the same route as last year? Same start town is all I found on their site. Which doesn't guarantee that the rest is the same. I'd propose to wait to put it in the calendar (preview is ok) until we have confirmation that it is indeed the same parcours

Thought I read an article in which they mentioned cities along the route and they were the same as last year, but can't find it anymore... maybe I am confusing it with another race or I dreamt it... will keep an eye on it.