April 2022

[Robyklebt]

Possibly, but unlikely, a PDF sometime in the future.

Races that need to be designed/checked if redesign necessary:

Stage races

Tour de Romandie (not online yet, they are always late)

One day races:

Redesign

Klasike Primavera

[Robyklebt]

Before the proposed calendar as copy and paste some comments/questions since I fear only 1.5 people actually look at the proposed calendar, maybe some deep and valuable prose by RKL will reach more people. If not I try with poetry next time.


To me it seems that this spring we didn't get the usual spring/real races boost. Worrisome of course.

So stage races....

Last year we had Catalunya with 3 editions, logic, with Harelbeke, Gent Wevelgem and De Panne parallel. Same this year.
Early evening missing out.

But seems we had Pais Vasco and Romandie at 3 as well (not that I remembered)

So while my first instinct was to go with 4, since there's only Schelde parallel to PV and Frankfurt with Romandie, pretty sure now it's better to go only with 3.

So Morning and afternoon will miss out on one each.
Pais Vasco: 10-18-21
Romandie: 14-19-22

Other opinions?

Then Tour of the Alps... less important, more important 1 day race parallel, so for me that looks like 2 times. Which ones.... 20 to me seems good, with the low participation and fewer parallel races it's one of the big victims timewise, so IMO good. SEcond one a bit of a mystery. 12 because it's such a nice seldomly used time?

[Robyklebt]

And the preview:
All early times in the evening for monuments because they are long and maybe 21 then better? But if 22 is wanted, that's ok too...

Changes in red

Friday 01.04.22 Adelie de Vitre 2 8
Saturday 02.04.22 GP Indurain 3 8 Volta Limburg 2 8
Sunday 03.04.22 9-15-18-21 Ronde Van Vlaanderen 6 9
Monday 04.04.22 10-18-21 Pais Vasco 4 9
Tuesday 05.04.22 10-18-21 Pais Vasco 4 9
Wednesday 06.04.22 10-18-21 Pais Vasco 4 9 13-17-22 Scheldeprijs 4 9
Thursday 07.04.22 10-18-21 Pais Vasco 4 9
Friday 08.04.22 10-18-21 Pais Vasco 4 9
Saturday 09.04.22 10-18-21 Pais Vasco 4 9
Sunday 10.04.22 10-14-19-22 Amstel 5 9
Monday 11.04.22
Tuesday 12.04.22 Paris-Camembert 2 8
Wednesday 13.04.22 9-14-18-21 Brabant 4 9
Thursday 14.04.22
Friday 15.04.22 Besancon Doubs 2 8
Saturday 16.04.22 Tour du Jura 2 8
Sunday 17.04.22 10-15-18-21 Paris Roubaix 6 9
Monday 18.04.22 9+20 Tour of the Alps 3 8
Tuesday 19.04.22 9+20 Tour of the Alps 3 8
Wednesday 20.04.22 10-15-19-22 Fleche Wallonne 5 9 9+20 Tour of the Alps 3 8
Thursday 21.04.22 9+20 Tour of the Alps 3 8
Friday 22.04.22 9+20 Tour of the Alps 3 8
Saturday 23.04.22
Sunday 24.04.22 9-14-18-22 Liege Bastogne Liege 6 9
Monday 25.04.22 Klasika Primavera 2 8
Tuesday 26.04.22 14-19-22 Tour de Romandie 4 9
Wednesday 27.04.22 14-19-22 Tour de Romandie 4 9
Thursday 28.04.22 14-19-22 Tour de Romandie 4 9
Friday 29.04.22 14-19-22 Tour de Romandie 4 9
Saturday 30.04.22 14-19-22 Tour de Romandie 4 9
Sunday 01.05.22 14-19-22 Tour de Romandie 4 9

[Gipfelstuermer]

Little feedback because of limited possibilities with few players? Or because Roby is doing such a great job?

In fact he is, as there is little design help at the moment. But I am back from holidays! For now seems great job from Roby, so just personal preferences for the moment (which normally I would not even mention, but as we are so few players at the moment, might make sense...)

- I consider Tour of the Alps in the afternoon, so would vote for 14-20 or 15-20 rather than 12-20.
- L-B-L: I'll probably be on the road side for the race and then only return home late. So would prefer 9-14-18-22 there.

But no need to adjust anything because of that. Feedback from others on times/editions always helpful, too.

[Schartner Bombe]

would be for a 09.00 or 10.00 edition Catalunya

[Schartner Bombe]

Romandie I mean

[Robyklebt]

Only 2 comments, was waiting a bit for more.
First Schartner, after all Gipfel is a Stammkunde here, he can wait: I don't know.... The question really is: Do we go with 4 editions each for Pais Vasco and Romandie or 3 editions each? Last year, with higher numbers I think we went 3, Luques decision, I sent both a 3 and 4 version to him, he chose the 3 for the preview and there was not enough pro 4 feeling in the forum to change that.

This year? I don't know, went with 3 as last year for the proposal. Can change to 4. Is that what is wanted?
4: 4 not very big groups at the stage races, basically dead parallel races. Yes, only 1 cat 4 one day race parallel each, not like with Catalunya.
3: 3 very very slightly bigger groups, hopefully 1 edition of the parallel program with slightly better participation.

What's better? I don't really know. Opinions?
But if it stays at 3 edition each, no morning for Romandie. Catalunya early evening, PV afternoon, so it's the mornings turn.
If 4, then yes

- I consider Tour of the Alps in the afternoon, so would vote for 14-20 or 15-20 rather than 12-20.

12 of course not ideal.
Afternoon rather weak, not sure if it makes sense giving it the second edition makes sense. But ok, if missing PV, in? Or morning if they miss Romandie? Both solutions better than 12, yep.
Easiest would actually be to have morning/afternoon/early evening people say if they want to ride it.... Then add that second edition accordingly.
LBL 22 is good I think, not all 21 probably better anyway, just put it like that because of the length. Ideally would be the usual mix 21-22, so one more between RVV, Amstel and PR could or maybe should change too, IF the lenght isn't a problem.
Changed it in the proposal already
And somehow had 10-18-21 for Amstel, nobody noticed, so changed that to 10-14-19-22 too....

[Schartner Bombe]

Okidoki, thx to roby the robbe for the answer. I know you do always your best. only thought - we in the morning didnt have UEA too this year.
But we are maybe too less teams in the morning tours - half are always the same fake registrations that make us look like a mega peloton. Then I fully understand that we play only the second violin in the morning because there are more teams in the afternoon and evening and more teams at night - I never paid attention to that.

[Robyklebt]

No no, the morning is not the weakest the afternoon is as week.

Last year it was, in order of importance

Afternoon no Catalunya , UAE, Alps, Sicilia
Morning no Pais Vasco
Early evening no Romandie Var

The important cat 4 stage races bolded. Clearly last year was bad having the afternoon miss 4, even if it is the weakest time probably.

So this year a more balanced attempt. No Var and Sicilia anyway, then

Morning: Romandie, UAE
Afternoon: Pais Vasco
Early Evening: Catalunya

All 3 miss one of the cat 4 stage races. The morning the UAE Tour as well this year. Then Alps, logically it should be Morning-Evening then.. hm, I think I'll adapt it to that. That's why more comments are actually welcome...

But!!!! IF people insist, we could try to go for 4 editions each for Pais Vasco and Catalunya, but that would mean people demanding it here first... 3 or 4 editions is 2 almost equally bad solutions the way I see it. 3 to me looks a tiny bit less bad, but...

Will change Alps to morning now.... even if I'm not sure how popular it will be.

[Schartner Bombe]

Tour of the alps in the morning could possibly be better attended.
Most morning guys are workers, so they play during work, weekend bad time to work.
Many morning guys are already married now, this could cause crises with the weekend boss.
And if one of the morning guys had time to make kids besides racing in rsf, what can i say, that one doesn't know the word weekend at all.
So my idea, could we not compress every tour from monday to friday? If we think of climate change, we could go ahead as cycling freaks - let our decadent manger cars drive only during the week ...or imagine, when falkenBIER's team races, how many cans of alu are lying on the roadside afterwards ... you see a lot of arguments.
Let's ride under the morning guys brand: no friday no future

[flockmastoR]

Tour of the alps in the morning could possibly be better attended.
Most morning guys are workers, so they play during work, weekend bad time to work.
Many morning guys are already married now, this could cause crises with the weekend boss.
And if one of the morning guys had time to make kids besides racing in rsf, what can i say, that one doesn't know the word weekend at all.
So my idea, could we not compress every tour from monday to friday? If we think of climate change, we could go ahead as cycling freaks - let our decadent manger cars drive only during the week ...or imagine, when falkenBIER's team races, how many cans of alu are lying on the roadside afterwards ... you see a lot of arguments.
Let's ride under the morning guys brand: no friday no future

Well in fact, that is a really good point. As long as we need to cut races in morning/afternoon better try to get the best out of it. Also about times in the afternoon, 15:00 and to a less degree 14:00 are the core starting times there. Experiments with earlier times when cutting morning is not helping some afternoon teams and the morning teams we have also don't race at 13:00 or so. What we need is more of the remaining teams talking about it here. I somehow don't talk too much about it, as I think it is my problem alone. But well I am kind of 33% of the afternoon right now

[team fl]

I don't comment, because I can hardly play these days anyway. I even missed MSR this year (Scharnter pointed out a lot of reasons why already). So even I tend to be an afternoon player during the week and an evening player for classics on the weekend, I don't want to interfer in something I am not even sure I can attend in the first place. But in generell, I'd support Schartner's and flocke's latest postings.

[Robyklebt]

I'm actually not come completely sure what the point is?

Non weekend tours? Everything longer than 5 days is at least partly on a weekend....And "compressing" them into 5 day tours? How? half stages??? Cut a stage or 2? I'm highly unconvinced.

Change the dates for shorter tours? I'm not a fan clearly as faithful readers probably know... but if lots of people ask for it when a possible situation happens we can think about it.

No 11-12-13-16-17 in the vain attempt to attract people from other times?

Hm I admit I like to test those times for smaller tours.. And occasionally try to smuggle in 11 16 17 for bigger ones too. But with the loooow numbers now don't think we had that for "main tours?"
12 like Alps is now changed to 9. 12 was mostly because I had no idea where to put it with only 2 times.

In general for tours the core times are indeed 9/10-14/15-18/19-21/22 With 20 the fucked time that should get more but I really don't know how.

For one day races other times still get some. 11 for example... 13 too, when offered it actually has done quite ok...

Of course with February and March not open in-game harder to check participation....

But anyway comments, proposals for improvements always welcome. Next time I put a tour at 12, complain! But if I think I have a good argument for it (unlike this time) I still might argue!

[Robyklebt]

Pais Vasco, stage 1-4 done, remaining too later this week

[Bear]

I am against cutting/compressing tours or changing the real dates. At least for the evening and i think it wont be possible to mix.

For me real dates are very important, although I know it's just a game.

[flockmastoR]

I am against cutting/compressing tours or changing the real dates. At least for the evening and i think it wont be possible to mix.

For me real dates are very important, although I know it's just a game.

I am also against cutting. What I meant, if tour A fits better for the morning people than tour B let them decide what tour to cut. But yeah Roby might be right that the most important tours somehow have stages on the weekend.

[Schartner Bombe]

so the shortening of the tour and a few other written things were meant ironically.

[Robyklebt]

Pais Vasco finished see earlier post.

Limburg and Schelde done too. GP Indurain on la Flamme rouge, but not accessible yet, don't care, we'll have last years edition.




Basically regard the calendar as finalized now, starting to put stuff online.

For what remains to be designed, see first post.

[Robyklebt]

Ronde done, should be online.

Since few people comment, nobody designs, at least check if everything is ok, categories, time like in the preview, name ok and all that cool stuff.

[Weezel]

I'm late for sure at the 28th or march, but for me its a pity that Pais Vasco (Unai is complaining for days) and the Tour of the Alps is not in the afternoon. In march I had to work more, so there was no time for tours, from April it's possible again.

Especially the Tour of the Alps is very interesting for me, as it's not that far away from my home.

Edit: And thank you @Robyklebt for the good organisation of the calender and the designs for so many races!

[Robyklebt]

Weezel:

Here again what I wrote in our race chat today: From bottom to top.

Big Donkey: 2 each, perfect
Big Donkey: As for Alps: 1) send your star to the fleche Wallonne! More important anyway. 1) Had no idea where to put it, then figured out that morning was most logic, then morning missed UAE while afternoon and early evening lose Alps.
Big Donkey: Went afternoon for PV because the morning missed UAE, so let them miss the later one...
Big Donkey: And then monring, afternoon, early evening all lose 1 big tour, Catalunya for early evening, PV-Romandie morning/afternoon.
Big Donkey: Pais Vasco out because only 3 editions finally... nobody said anything really and I have no clue either, all solutions bad, 3+4, then went with 3 as last year
T-Mobile-A: I know, i know
Big Donkey: And Cakester.... 28th is really a bit late...

So no change

Main reason is late, earlier we still can talk, move stuff around, exchange Romandie-PV missing times, or go to 4 editions each or whatever...

[Robyklebt]

LBL done, it's the same parcours as in 2022 minus one climb, Forges. Since they basically just make a 6km detour and come back to within 100 meters where they turn right to go to that climb, used the 21 route, cut 6 km
Adjusted a bit after Redoute, there seems to be a minor climb right after, somehow the designer last year (RKL) was inept and had 2 2 instead of 6% around there.

In other news I won't design anything else in March anymore. So what isn't online won't be online before the month change unless somebody else designs it.

See first post for details what needs to be designed or checked.

[Robyklebt]

Amstel

[Gipfelstuermer]

Postpone RVV and Pais Vasco seems necessary (if possible at all to change calendar while server is not running). But currently teams are not even be able to sign up... So cancel or postpone the only options.... Postpone better than cancel I believe.

How to postpone? Assuming Server comes back some time Monday... I suggest RVV on Tuesday (only 3 editions) then start Pais Vasco Wednesday. 2x2 halfstages to finish before Amstel or parallel to Amstel? Both not ideal but both acceptable.

In the end, solution probably needs to be whatever Roby can input...

[Robyklebt]

The only thing loading is the editor.
So can't do anything.

Not sure if that's the best solution anyway, depending on when it comes back forgetting RVV and moving on with PAis Vasco actually seems more sensible.. but as usual those that have an opinion better write it here...otherwise will be too late