August 2020

[Gipfelstuermer]

http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/august2020.pdf

[team fl]

More or less important one day races with original start date in August 2020:

01.08. Slag om Norg (1.1)
16.08. Prudential RideLondon (1. UWT) -> https://www.prudentialridelondon.co.uk/info-hub/routes/
16.08. EuroEyes Cyclassics Hamburg (1. UWT)
18.08. GP Stad Zottegem (1.1) -> https://gpstadzottegem.be/en/wegwijzer_en/
22.08. Omloop Mandel-Leie-Schelde Meulebeke (1.1)
23.08. Bretagne Classic - Ouest-France (1. UWT) -> http://www.bretagne-classique-ouest-fra ... 86-FR.html (incl. GPX-file)
23.08. Schaal Sels Merksem/ Johan Museeuw Classic (1.1)
26.08. Druivenkoers - Overijse (1.1)
29.08. Brussels Cycling Classic (1.Pro) -> http://brusselscyclingclassic.be/

[Gipfelstuermer]

Vuelta complete here

Please check for errors

Please luques change jerseys & points

Please luques/Donkey upload PDF

Not sure if Luques has any time to implement that for Vuelta, but the real jerseys would be nice.

Jerseys
RED for GC
BLUE for Mountain Classement
GREEN for Points Classement
WHITE for Youth Jersey

Please, please, please, everybody wants it, Luques!

Points

And if he does the jerseys, bonus points for Luques if he adjusts bonus points as well.

For every stage finish and IS
Stage finish 25 - 20 - 16 - 14 - 12 - 10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
Intermediate sprint 4 - 3 - 2

For mountains, it seems to be:

High climb finish 15 - 10 - 6 - 4 - 2
First category 10 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1
Second category 5 - 3 - 1
Third category 3 - 2 - 1


Race


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_01
Type: TTT
Min-Tact: km1


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_02
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km168


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_03
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km186

*** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY ***


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_04
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km148


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_05
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km124


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_06
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km150


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_07
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km170


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_08
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km160


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_09
Type: Mountain
Min-Tact: km116

*** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY ***


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_10
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km134


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_11
Type: Mountain
Min-Tact: km144


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_12
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km142


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_13
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km164


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_14
Type: Mountain
Min-Tact: km128


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_15
Type: Mountain
Min-Tact: km54

*** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY ***


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_16
Type: ITT
Min-Tact: km1


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_17
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km176


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_18
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km206


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_19
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km122


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_20
Type: Mountain
Min-Tact: km138


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... lta2020_21
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km108

[Gipfelstuermer]

PDF is there! Thanks luques and Roby!

28.07. - 01.08. Pro | Burgos --> Designed by Roby
30.07. - 01.08. 2.1 | Tour d l'Ain --> Designed by Roby
03.08. - 08.08. 2.HC | Tour of Utah --> Not on flamme rouge, can't find more than this
06.08. - 09.08. 2.HC | Arctic Race of Norway --> Not on flamme rouge, but route here
14.08. - 06.09. UWT | VUELTA --> Designed by Gip
20.08. - 23.08. 2.HC | Deutschland Tour --> can't find profiles here
31.08. - 06.09. UWT | BinckBank Tour --> Not on flamme rouge, can't find more than this

Alternatives, if designs can't be found?

Alternative for Utah may be:
06.08. - 09.08. 2.1 | Czech Cycling Tour --> czechcyclingtour.cz

Alternative for Deutschland may be:
11.08. - 15.08. 2.HC | Denmark Rundt --> Can't find more than this

Alternative for BinckBank may be:
27.08. - 30.08. 2.1 | Colorado Classic --> Can't find profiles here


Times... Good selection for Burgos/Ain and Utah/Norway! Sometimes I can praise luques and Roby, too!

Only thing that worries me a bit is Vuelta 10-15-18-21, which simply shows the dilemma of having only 4 times for the Grand Tours. There have been long discussion in the chat about it. I think with Hansa, Mangahn and Roby... The truth is, with only 4 times it is always going to be a problem for the evening. Some people can only ride 20/21 (I think for example Mangahn), so 22h is a problem for them. Some people can only ride 22/23 (I think for example RS Coesitz) so 21h last edition is a problem for them. In addition, it seems financially unfair that evening always "suffers" financially with large pelotons. It is not difficult to predict that 21h Vuelta is going to be the largest peloton of the four.

Grand Tour since we only have 4 Grand Tours editions:
Vuelta 2019: Largest peloton was 22h with 14 teams
Giro 2020: Largest peloton was 22h with 16 teams (same for 15h)
TDF 2020: Largest peloton was 22h with 14 teams

Fantastic for race fun and quality of the race, but financial desaster for some teams. I think I have +3 million or so this year simply because I rode in the afternoon (16 teams Giro, 9 teams TDF) as compared to last year riding the evening (19 teams Giro, 12 teams TDF). My results were very similar (some stages, one jersey), but I have much more money. If you are flexible, you can optimize financially like that, but it would be better to fix prize money distribution as not everybody is so flexible.

Long story short: It is going to be the first time with only 4 Grand Tours editions and latest version being 21h. We can test that, see how it goes and maybe adapt next year, if again we choose to have 3 Grand Tours with 4 editions each.

[Robyklebt]

The whole thing is based on the old calendar of course.

Utah: cancelled in 2020: So 2019 profiles, which would need to be designed as well, since we didn't ride it in 2019
Arctic: Cancelled in 2020: But maps on their site seem good enough to design it. GPM and intermediates... guessing fantasy I guess.
Deutschland: Cancelled: so 2019 profiles
BinckBank: Is planned one month later in the new calendar. So some profiles/maps should come up at some point. Hopefully early enough.

Alternatives:
Czech for Utah, makes sense indeed. Profiles there. Put in I would say. Missed that, but definitely should be in here for Utah.

Denmark or Deutschland was indeed my 2 proposals to Luques, with preference for Deutschland. Both cancelled, Denmark rescheduled and cancelled. So both 2019 profiles. But since our Germans loooove to ride in Germany, we even had to have fantasy Deutschland when there was no Deutschland.... go for that. Both makes little sense because then the parallel program to the Vuelta would be overcrowded. Denmark or Deutschland, then BinckBank and then there's Britain that starts before the Vuelta finishes too (I think at least) Cancelled as well, but has chances to be in I would say.

[Mangahn]

Only thing that worries me a bit is Vuelta 10-15-18-21, which simply shows the dilemma of having only 4 times for the Grand Tours. There have been long discussion in the chat about it. I think with Hansa, Mangahn and Roby... The truth is, with only 4 times it is always going to be a problem for the evening. Some people can only ride 20/21 (I think for example Mangahn), so 22h is a problem for them. Some people can only ride 22/23 (I think for example RS Coesitz) so 21h last edition is a problem for them. In addition, it seems financially unfair that evening always "suffers" financially with large pelotons. It is not difficult to predict that 21h Vuelta is going to be the largest peloton of the four.

Grand Tour since we only have 4 Grand Tours editions:
Vuelta 2019: Largest peloton was 22h with 14 teams
Giro 2020: Largest peloton was 22h with 16 teams (same for 15h)
TDF 2020: Largest peloton was 22h with 14 teams

Fantastic for race fun and quality of the race, but financial desaster for some teams. I think I have +3 million or so this year simply because I rode in the afternoon (16 teams Giro, 9 teams TDF) as compared to last year riding the evening (19 teams Giro, 12 teams TDF). My results were very similar (some stages, one jersey), but I have much more money. If you are flexible, you can optimize financially like that, but it would be better to fix prize money distribution as not everybody is so flexible.

Long story short: It is going to be the first time with only 4 Grand Tours editions and latest version being 21h. We can test that, see how it goes and maybe adapt next year, if again we choose to have 3 Grand Tours with 4 editions each.

Good point we shouldn´t forget about. Its not all about the money, but yes, its a point. Its okay to loose money at a GT. Its okay to risk a lot of money. Its a bit ugly that it difference so much on time.

[Hansa]

At giro it were 13,16,15,16 competitors, at tdf it was 9,9,13,14 so its not really the amount of teams the difference but the different in expensive teams was very different at different times. Giro 19h for example with 3 600k+ teams which made 2 of them lose much money. But tdf 22h was thw most expensive tdf time so some teams lost money there.

[Rasmussen]

A salary Cup with a max salary of 550'000 (for example) would easily solve these "problems".

[Hansa]

A salary Cup with a max salary of 550'000 (for example) would easily solve these "problems".

Mo it would not in a group with multiple teams with 550K salary they still spend more noney than in a group with teams going cheap. But thats just the different riding styles.

[Robyklebt]

And it all has nothing to do with August.

[Mangahn]

And it all has nothing to do with August.

Sure?
We are talking about GT, Vuelta should be one of it. Vuelta should be at august.

[Robyklebt]

I'm sure, yes.

[Mangahn]

Czech instead of Utah would be exact parallel to Norway (Arktic).

Great Vuelta is ready that fast. Any chance that more than vuelta and germany will be online infront of the formsettings?
Looks like Norway don´t have profil - but the race - online.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Doing Norway.

One Question: Number of riders. I think we used to do real number of riders plus one, but I think in the meantime we changed it to UCI World Tour 9 riders, less important tours 8 riders?

So for example Sibiu Tour has only 6 riders, but we ride with 8. So Norway the same? 6 in real life, but 8 in RSF? I think it makes sense, because a tour like that will be completely chaotic with 7 riders in RSF. But it is possible of course. After all, completely chaotic tours can benefit small teams... but not sure if it really makes fun like that. So if managers get frustrated by real life plus 1 rider, better to stick to the small tours 8, big tours 9 riders.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... tic2020_01
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km144


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... tic2020_02
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km134


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... tic2020_03
Type: Mountain
Min-Tact: km172


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... tic2020_04
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km130

KOM in real life are

HC: 10-7-5-3-1 (so Cat2 in RSF)
Cat1: 5-3-1 (so Cat3 in RSF)
Cat2: 3-2-1 (so Cat4 in RSF)

Category for each 2020 climb just estimated by me...

[Robyklebt]

Waah, fast.

Thought I start doing that today. But ok, will do Czech then, Luques hasn't posted the updated proposal yet, but 99% sure it will be Czech Tour.

[Robyklebt]

One Question: Number of riders. I think we used to do real number of riders plus one, but I think in the meantime we changed it to UCI World Tour 9 riders, less important tours 8 riders?

So for example Sibiu Tour has only 6 riders, but we ride with 8. So Norway the same? 6 in real life, but 8 in RSF? I think it makes sense, because a tour like that will be completely chaotic with 7 riders in RSF. But it is possible of course. After all, completely chaotic tours can benefit small teams... but not sure if it really makes fun like that. So if managers get frustrated by real life plus 1 rider, better to stick to the small tours 8, big tours 9 riders.

Forgot to comment on this.

I completely forgot everything about this, we might have been doing it wrong the whole time.
What I remember is: cat 4+, both 1 day races and stage races 9 riders.
The rest:.... that's what I don't remember, it really could have been just reality +1, but for the past x years I've simply been putting 8 on cat 1-3 real races.... probably wrong, stupid Donkey, will try to find the important posts again sometime later..., before the SEptember calendar. Damn.

[team fl]

One Question: Number of riders. I think we used to do real number of riders plus one, but I think in the meantime we changed it to UCI World Tour 9 riders, less important tours 8 riders?

So for example Sibiu Tour has only 6 riders, but we ride with 8. So Norway the same? 6 in real life, but 8 in RSF? I think it makes sense, because a tour like that will be completely chaotic with 7 riders in RSF. But it is possible of course. After all, completely chaotic tours can benefit small teams... but not sure if it really makes fun like that. So if managers get frustrated by real life plus 1 rider, better to stick to the small tours 8, big tours 9 riders.

Forgot to comment on this.

I completely forgot everything about this, we might have been doing it wrong the whole time.
What I remember is: cat 4+, both 1 day races and stage races 9 riders.
The rest:.... that's what I don't remember, it really could have been just reality +1, but for the past x years I've simply been putting 8 on cat 1-3 real races.... probably wrong, stupid Donkey, will try to find the important posts again sometime later..., before the SEptember calendar. Damn.

My opinion about this: Let's look at the race's category AND it's profile resp. the need for which line up regarding ingame physics. I think for Norway, 8 riders are okay and simulate real life outcomes very well, because a) it's a short tour and b) the stages are not very hard. So, I plead for 8 riders in this case.

Disclaimer: This opinion of mine about the number of riders for Norway has nothing to do with an opinion about how to deal with other races or stage races no matter which category in general .

[Robyklebt]

Stage 1+2 done.GPM all cat 3, in real life they give 5-4-3-2-1 point, so 5-3-1 is closest. Rest tomorrow or in 2 days.






Mintact of course 30 km or more.

[luques]

Updated

[Mangahn]

Minutentakt Vuelta ist... argh. Bitte überprüft wenigstens Etappe 15. Nur weil eine Etappe kurz ist muss man es nicht künstlich in die Länge ziehen.

Insgesamt bin ich fürs zeichnen natürlich dankbar. Und meckern ist einfach als selbst machen

[Hansa]

Updated

August tab in calender please

[Robyklebt]

My Vuelta complaints, mostly mintact, but first another thing.

Why is 2020 written there? Is the game full of idiots? What is the name of the race? Vuelta a Espana. Shortened to Vuelta or La Vuelta often. THERE IS NO 2020. Or any other year in the name of the race. Then let's say I win a stage, stage 1. What will it say in my palmares? Vuelta 2020 Et 1. TTT Utrecht - Utrecht. What will it say right next to it? Category 5. Next to that? Field 1. Next to that? 14.08.2020 Yes, we seriously don't need that information twice, if someday we ride the Vuelta 1985, then ok, put that in, but as long as we ride the race of the same year, no, let it be. Just ugly.

On to the mintact:


Stage 2: 169 bad. Uneven numbers always bad, because it's confusing. The mintact never starts there, but at the next even number. Make it 168 or 170(I'm obviously for 168) Or another few km earlier. Sprinters sometimes like the extra seconds to react, change tempo as well. But ok, you like those 10 km... but make it even numbers. here the only stage with that problem I think

Stage 4: 168? Not even a short mintact fanatic like you would do that there... it's 1 km after the last GPM, so 1 km before the end...So writing mistake? Before Karabieta seems sensible.

Rest seems ok, once you accept your strange short mintact

[Robyklebt]

Gran Trittico Lombardo

Somehow the climb in Varese from the lake comes out different from what we used to have, 5 5 3, followed the route by la flamme rouge and designed the final circuit seperately to check... bah, maybe they got the map wrong? Or we got it wrong the whole time. Checked, seems a different route from near the lake.. but think we had that one before too, just when... anyway, doesn't matter.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Ok, thanks for mentioning those two errors. Stage 2 I did not pay attention to the even-km rule... changed it. But you might have also noticed I followed that rule for the other stages, so don't worry, I am able to learn! Stage 4 was only a typo, so km148 is correct.

Then your argument re. 10km mintact... I have never heard a sprinter team complain about that. Well, admittedly there are not that many sprinter teams around anymore due to the sprint system... but still, I don"t think anybody has a problem with that as long as the finish is really flat. If it is hilly - and hilly can even be just so +3/+4 on the last km's, then it is a different story of course. On the other side, I heard many managers complain about the RKL 30km-mintact requirement... Not going to complain about your design because you may have a good reason on some stage and in general I am happy that you contribute so much with your designs. Maybe we can just do both 15km mintact in general? If you want an agreement or more consistent approach there.

Oh, and the 2020 thing... well, I can follow your argument that the date is in the Palmares already. You may find them really funny, but there are two counter arguments on that. Firstly, the Palmares has a weird ordering of columns in my point of view, so date appears last. If date appeared first, ok, but as date appears last, I find it more convenient to read the date earlier - for example when I look at statistics of really old players. Secondly, and more importantly, I don't only design for the Palmares. Personally, I find it nice to have the information in the picture itself... sometimes you look at the picture only and not in connection with a Palmares, for example in the race screen or in the forum. It is even more true for one day races. Sometimes in the forum you can't really see what version from which year someone has posted... you then need to look it up in the race editor. Anyway, if you really hate it so much and it seems to be a question of aesthetics, I will think about changing that for future designs. Still, wondering if anybody else hates it as much as you...

[Robyklebt]

Putting Vuelta online now, check for mistakes......

New Getxo there too, flamme rouge has a 25,x lap, on their site it says 23,8, bah, had already done it with the flamme thing, so fuck it.