cycling4freaks.com

Until now (which was quite a short time), the Tour des Pavés is still missing. As far as I can see, the old spot for Sachsen is already taken, so I'd see two options:
1) After Down Under (actually the old spot), which would be parallel to Besseges this year
2) Before Down Under, which would overlap with the January Tour (runner-up of the Dec tour?)

Are there an volunteers for drawing the Tour des Pavés? Or is it already done?

For january tour we can make another contest

January first: GP Letzebuerg! Our traditional new year race... who cares that it's cold, it's a tradition... cat 3!

Agree with the Pavétour.
Thought it was decided it was Alk doing it again though...

From the dec thread.

lesossies wrote:We are off topic, but I would propose a vote between EAT, GIOI EMT, and Alger in only one round with the possibility to change the vote during the period.
The January Tour could be cat2 .
I must look how it can be integrated in the january programm.
Let us discuss in the january 2013 thread.

No, we really were on topic. Me at least. According to my personal and much superior calendar today is the 29.08. Eight month of the year? Logic. October. So next month November, then December. the tenth month. So I was ontopic.

A second Dec tour in your January: If you think it's good, then I'm for it too:) Whatever the selection process. But only cat 2 of course, agree on that.

Tour Down Under Classic 20.01.2013

what is jannuary tour? new fantasy tour of 2013?

Should we create a 'fun' all around world tour? or maybe just recicle the bad december tour? And what about the rules for this tour?

what abou an RSF COuntry Tour? all >Countrys where we have the Rsf language get 1 or 2 stages so that we have 14 stages in the end i think its maybe a good idea for a RSF special tour

GP Letzebuerg 1.1 OK

Paves Tour from 14-17/18 4 or 5 days. Who is drawing it ?

A 10-12 days January tour could be possible.
maybe, the designers could adapt their december tour.
Alternativ, I have a 8days mexico tour.

Well Leso, in my opinion, we had a november tour (super mountain) december tour (mountain) so this Jannuary tour should be mittel/plat not another mountain tour

Perhaps the best solution is to take the runner up for the December contest, not just this year but as a general rule. It is very likely that the 2 tours favor different riders. Setting rules that the Jan-tour should be different from the Dec-tour are difficult, as we have many different types of riders. If one tour favors Huber, and on climbers or classics they are different, but the sprinter will still be not happy.

Pirkio wrote:Well Leso, in my opinion, we had a november tour (super mountain) december tour (mountain) so this Jannuary tour should be mittel/plat not another mountain tour

+11111111111

If there is a cat 2 long tour, IMO it should be a second one from the Dec competition. Reward one more of the entries. How to decide up to leso. All systems have advantages and disadvantages.

Cut to 12 days possible too as he proposed, but, why not do it like last year with Costa Rica? Start it at the end of December, and then leave it full. Costa Rica last year had ony 3 times, but ok participation, shows a tour over new year doesn't seem to be completely hopeless. Start 30.12, end 12.01 would work. Both ok for me, cut 2 days (designers choice, guess one would be the rest day) and from January second isn't bad either.

- For a long tour it would be nice to take another from the "December" Tours, to reward the designers.
- Saying "there are too many mountain tours" and then talking about the Andes is just laughable... Or should climbers ask for some Dolomites in the Eneco tour ?
- December tour is supposed to be a "short GT" (and I guess it is, but the discussion is pointless). If this one isn't correct perhaps someone should have written it before and tried to convince the voters.
- A pure "easy"tour will 95% of the time exclude everyone else, whereas the current tours have stages for all kind of riders.
- Perhaps there are less "flat" tours than last year; but that is the normal way things work. Look at Paris-Nice, Dauphiné, Romandie, Tour de France this year, they were all made for the same kind of rider (for example many ITT and a bit less/shorter mountains)

No way, In my point of view who have a strong climber can't win Vuelta, Ande, December and Jannuary tour..

My proposal.. for 2013
Ande= High muntain
December= Quite flat, 2 maybe 3 real mountain but not more, 1 very long IT.
Jannuary= Tour like December now

There is no point in requesting a tour for a special kind or rider. I could propose to have a tour for classics, hillsprinters, classics sprinters or 80-70 every year. For me an essential part of the dec-tour contest is to have different types of tours in different locations. As mentioned before, to take the runner-up should guarantee that quite different tours are chosen, but it is clear that the result will not suit everybody as we have much more than 2 different types of riders.

Agree with the no point in requesting stuff! Just design and put it up for the vote in 2013!

For the nr 2 should guarantee a different kind of tour...
Mmh, I'm actually not sure it will work out every year. This year yes, last year too, but for example in 09 nr 1 and 2 were almost identical... SPIH and OL's SPIH copy Yes, OL better stuff for classics, SPIH with a long TTT, but all in all they were very similar. So that can happen too.
But in the end all methods to chose nr 2 have its advantages and disadvantages. Nr 2 automatically will actually increase the chance to have rather specialized tours. Since a very climbers friendly or a very TT friendly, or a very sprinter friendly, or a very classic friendly tour can count on a fairly sure amount of "niche" votes in the first round they will often do well. While the more general tours split the votes between themselves maybe. Then go under in the second round (this IMO is what happened to Pakistan India in 11) IMO it would have lost against almost all other tours in the second round, but had the ITT bonus I guess. So that would be for having a new vote... there the risk that another similar tour to the first one wins maybe is there too...
But in the end lets have leso decide. And agree, pushing for a tour for rider type x, isn't really what's needed, participation in the vote would be much nicer. There push for your rider x type tour, by voting.

Radunion wrote:There is no point in requesting a tour for a special kind or rider. I could propose to have a tour for classics, hillsprinters, classics sprinters or 80-70 every year. For me an essential part of the dec-tour contest is to have different types of tours in different locations. As mentioned before, to take the runner-up should guarantee that quite different tours are chosen, but it is clear that the result will not suit everybody as we have much more than 2 different types of riders.

Yes, totally agree! it's annoying to have tours for pure climbers or hubers everytime...

It's even more annoying to have ignorance in every SM post

What are GT racers? Hubers and climbers with TT. So in the end it's pretty normal to have those 2 type of riders usually favored. Not pure climbers like you in your ignorance claim. Climbers with TT. A 86 with 60 is a different animal than an 86 with 50. And... so far the 86 with 50 TT had 0 Dec tours where they were favored, if I remember correctly. This is by far the most pro "pure climbers" Dec tour we ever had I think. And since the Dec tour is a small GT.... normal, since the real GTs usually favor..... Hubers and climbers with TT! Shocking, I know.

2006: Baikal, don't really remember, boycotted it (pure fantasy) Could have been pro pure climbers, Radler won, beating Sevilla, the no TT vs with TT fight. But maybe Radler just was good...
2007: Balkan, don't really remember the details, but climbers with TT favored from what I remember
2008: 3 Länder Tour: Remember the queen stage... don't remember the TT, but fairly sure it was pro climbers with TT
2009: SPIH: Actually not sure anymore.... fairly short TT, ultra long TTT, Climbers with TT, probably Hubers too, pure climbers depending on the TTT team of course. Leupolds the same, one actually won (on a flat stage...)
2010: Sheyk: Leupolds Nr 2 Hubers, but basically very clearly Leupolds.
2011: Yemen: Hubers first, climbers with TT second.
2012: Japan: Climbers, with TT still favored, but mostly climbers with TT team favored. Then climbing, TT, downhill etc. A well protected Huber btw is not chanceless at all.

So? The first year where at the start the pure climbers are not just outsiders that of course can suprise, and sometimes did, but actual contenders. While the Leupolds had their Dec Tour in 2010? Oh, the scandal, the Leupolds are not given the Dec tour every second year, which is clearly what you want. Stop whining, if you want to be a regular favorite for the real GTs, and outsider with chances in the Andes, and often a favorite in the Dectour, buy a Huber. Or otherwise do it like the pure climber friends... see what you can get out of the parcours and deal with it. Both pure climbers and Leupolds in GTs are outsiders normally. Occasionally they get their chance, in the Dec tour 2010 the Leupolds, 2012 the climbers.... but oh, now if the fringe group that isn't your group gets its chance it's all bad and you want change, change, rotation. This is exactly rotation SM, plus even if it wasn't, we the users decide, if the voters decide to get a Leupold tour every year, so be it. But stop saying you want some rotation when all you want is "Leupold tours".

lesossies wrote:Paves Tour from 14-17/18 4 or 5 days. Who is drawing it ?

I'm currently working on it (five stages in total), should be done by end of this week and definitely no later than end of next week.

One small thing: Dec. and Nov. were month for climbers. In January, so far, we have almost the opposite situation. Thus, if possible, I hope you have some small tours for climbers left in your vault

Jayco Herald Sun Tour 03.-06.1.
Prolog: http://www.heraldsuntour.com.au/course/prologue/
Stage 1: http://www.heraldsuntour.com.au/course/stage-1/
Stage 2: http://www.heraldsuntour.com.au/course/stage-2/
Stage 3: http://www.heraldsuntour.com.au/course/stage-3/

Down Under
http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/documen ... tage-1.pdf
http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/documen ... tage-2.pdf
http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/documen ... tage-3.pdf
http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/documen ... tage-4.pdf
http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/documen ... tage-5.pdf
http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/documen ... tage-6.pdf

Maybe soon time for a leso decision? Second Dec tour for January I mean...

team fl made a 12 days version of his East African Tour .
I want to start it the 2.1.2013.
EA would end the 13.01.
The Pavés Tour could start the 14.01

lesossies wrote:team fl made a 12 days version of his East African Tour .
I want to start it the 2.1.2013.
EA would end the 13.01.
The Pavés Tour could start the 14.01

Good!

Ideas about the times?
Just asking... complaining later (Ok, I say my thing now...: first of course the designer should be able to say a time, so that he can ride his own shit, second where possible maybe different times from the dec tour, so 9 or 11, 14 or 16 and so on)