August 2024

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF
August 2024

Races to be designed:
Olympic Road Race >>> Gip
Cupa Max Ausnit >>> Gip
Vuelta a Burgos >>> OL
Tour de Pologne >>> OL
La Vuelta Ciclista a España >>> see Vuelta-Thread
Benelux Tour >>> Tukh

Races to be checked:
Donostia San Sebastian Klasikoa >>> Gip
Circuito de Getxo - Memorial Hermanos Otxoa >>> Gip
La Polynormande >>> Gip
Tour of Leuven - Memorial Jef Scherens >>> Gip
Egmont Cycling Race >>> Gip
Druivenkoers - Overijse >>> Gip
Bretagne Classic - Ouest-France >>> OL
Ronde van de Achterhoek >>> Gip
Muur Classic Geraardsbergen >>> Gip


Legend
BLUE = Designer found
GREEN = DONE

[Gipfelstuermer]

Some ideas for discussion:

Olympic Road Race: Which category should it be? It was Cat 5 in 2012, then Cat 3 in 2016 and 2021. How many riders per team? In reality it is max 4 (but it is also by nation and not by team anyway...). Which time is best for this race? I propose afternoon (14 because of the length of the race) for the Olympic Road Race, then evening (20?) for the World Championship in September.

Burgos: 5-days, from Monday to Friday, could allow for 5 editions. Maybe an opportunity to test unusual times (8 and 23) as well?

Vuelta: 4 editions probably enough, because Vuelta is usually slightly less popular than Giro & TDF. I suggest:
- 10 for the morning, but only if at least one team confirms, it wants to ride at 10, otherwise I go back to 9.
- 15 for the afternoon after 14 for the TDF.
- 19-22 for the evening after 18 TDF was less popular than 20 and 22.

Vuelta Parallel Programme: Poland, Deutschland & Benelux are the stage race candidates. Would offering all three make the parallel programme too attractive? If yes, Deutschland the likely candidate to be cut because of its category and because Bretagne is parallel to that... but we have lots of German teams who might like to ride it? Then I suggest keeping it, but only 2 editions per parallel stage race, always evening + 1x morning, 1x afternoon, 1x early evening. This can be tweaked if some teams express a specific interest in a specific tour at a specific time.

[schappy]

For me we should cut off the German Tour. Poland and Benelux is fine in my eyes. Poland normally with TT and Mountains Benelux Flat with some hilly. Perfect match. Vuelta should be okay with 4 editions. Grand Tours with less then 10 Teams are not really nice to see.

[Tukhtahuaev]

What about Arctic Race of Norway parallel to Burgos? Maybe 3x Burgos, 2x Norway

Even without Deutschland Tour I am 50/50 on riding Vuelta or parallel program, so I would cut Deutschland.

If I ride the Vuelta, I would like 10h, but as I said not sure to actually ride it

[Gipfelstuermer]

What about Arctic Race of Norway parallel to Burgos? Maybe 3x Burgos, 2x Norway

That would be possible. I did not include Norway initially because it is from Thursday to Sunday, maybe not ideal because we generally have lower participation on weekends and there is San Sebastian in parallel. As one of the few autumn classics it might deserve not to have a parallel programme. But if there are many requests for Norway, 3x Burgos and 2x Norway sounds OK.

[olmania]

I drew this one a while ago as info was available. Maybe not room for it, or maybe just 1/2 times. It offers an interesting profile as pure TT riders might fight for the GK and sprinters can get at least 2 stages and green easily. Could be used later in autumn as a "fantasy" if August is already full.






I started Burgos, waiting for the info to come online for the following stages








Benelux seems to have a TT this year. No info yet about the profile of other stages (I'd not be surprised to see some pavé there also).
Arctic race, info is already available, 2 first stages are slightly hilly (MS might be possible in at least one) , 2 last are hilltop finish. Actually quite similar to Burgos I think (but without TT).
No info yet about Poland except that the TT should be 15kms and uphill. 7 stages from 12th to 18th. Sprinters should have interests in going there if there are the same amount of flat stages as usual.
German tour has a 3kms prologue and then all stages are hilly (unsure about the %), just checked the profiles available on their website.

[Schartner Bombe]

The EROICA GERMANIA is missing from the calender.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9530&start=25#p119192

[Schartner Bombe]

I drew this one a while ago as info was available. Maybe not room for it, or maybe just 1/2 times. It offers an interesting profile as pure TT riders might fight for the GK and sprinters can get at least 2 stages and green easily. Could be used later in autumn as a "fantasy" if August is already full.

It's great that you designed all of this, but please show it in your "Olmania Production" first - make a link. You're filling up the calendar thread with tours that aren't being done or weren't agreed upon beforehand. No one knows what is being done or not. Please.

[Gipfelstuermer]

The EROICA GERMANIA is missing from the calender.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9530&start=25#p119192

Sry missed that because I only save some chat excerpt

Schartner Bombe(17:23): OCT L'EROICA (Eroica Gaiole Chianti)
Schartner Bombe(17:22): SEPT EROICA CALIFORNIA
Schartner Bombe(17:22): JUL EROICA DOLOMITI
Schartner Bombe(17:22): JUN EROICA SWITZERLAND
Schartner Bombe(17:22): MAY EROICA MONTALCINO
Schartner Bombe(17:21): APR EROICA HISPANIA
Schartner Bombe(17:21): MAR EROICA SOUTH AFRICA
Schartner Bombe(17:21): FEB ERICA CUBA

24th August - real date - looks OK for Eroica Germania.

[Schartner Bombe]

The EROICA GERMANIA is missing from the calender.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9530&start=25#p119192

Sry missed that because I only save some chat excerpt
24th August - real date - looks OK for Eroica Germania.

... too many ways to send messages in c4f ...

[olmania]

I drew this one a while ago as info was available. Maybe not room for it, or maybe just 1/2 times. It offers an interesting profile as pure TT riders might fight for the GK and sprinters can get at least 2 stages and green easily. Could be used later in autumn as a "fantasy" if August is already full.

It's great that you designed all of this, but please show it in your "Olmania Production" first - make a link. You're filling up the calendar thread with tours that aren't being done or weren't agreed upon beforehand. No one knows what is being done or not. Please.

I won't publish the stages on my thread of fantasy designs, as it's fantasy there, not real races.
Also, if I get the opportunity to design it because I have time, I do it, even if it's before the thread is open. Imo, it's better have a tour designed a long time in advance and put it in the calendar even if lower category, than put in the calendar a tour we don't have the info about yet (and sometimes will have after the month change).
Burgos is not done yet cause they reveal details about the stages week after week, and not all at once.
And I told about these designs I already did in the calendar chat; before publishing it here when the thread opened. so it was possible to know what was already designed in case you wanted to design it too

[drei.zehn]

Difficult Vuelta times for me. Don’t know if I can start there like this. Would like 14h or 20/21h…

Everything else is colliding with getting kids from Kindergarten or bringing kids to bed. 22h is possible, but very dangerous falling asleep during the stages ;D

Or if we try some different times, maybe 13h is possible?

[Narrenparty]

8h Burgos looks nice to me. Like that test with some new times.

I would prefer 9h Vuelta if that is not possible 14h would be my best time to start.

[zizou]

Like that 8h at Burgos too.

Prefer 9h over 10h for Vuelta, but not much of a difference for me.

[Radunion]

Tour du Limousin-Périgord (13. - 16) is interesting as well. A couple of World Tour teams take part and it ends the day before the Vuelta. I see why we reduce tours during the Vuelta, but there is little reason not to ride a tour that is cat. 2.1 or higher before (if somebody is willing to design it). Even 3 parallel tours with 2 editions should be no problem. This is of course true for Norway as well.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Lots of 'Cotes' along the way.

Cote des Gardes 5 6
Cote de Saint-Germain-en-Laye 2 5
Cote des Mesnuls 7
Cote de Port-Royal 5
Cote de Senlisse 5 5
Cote d'Herbouvilliers 6
Cote de Saint-Remy-Les-Chevreuse 5
Chateaufort 5
Cote de Bievres 2 6
Cote des Gardes (other side) 8
3x Montmartre 2* 5**

Any advice on the Cotes is appreciated.

Montmartre 400m false flat on Rue Lepic, then according to LFR 1.1km @5.6% on Rue Lepic and Rue Norvins

5.6% could be rounded upwards to 6%. To me the course looks a lot like something for classic riders and I think 2 5 simulates that better, but happy to change it to 1 6 if you prefer the precision. As for the pave, the first part looks reasonably smooth and is only 400-500m, so I put only * and then the climb is narrow and tough but it is still city pave so putting *** seemed a bit too extreme to me. But in the end, changing from 2* 5** to 1* 6*** or so... justifiable... so let me know your opinions or inside knowledge if anyone has been there with a bike !

Mintact. I put km244 before the second passage of Montmartre, but before the first passage or third passage also justifiable.

[QuickSprint]

I really don´t have an input as schedules for the tours seem good to me, if there is a evening time from 20 to 23 is good for me. But I just wanted to compliment the fact we have so many tours in august and July. Really appriciate that as a tour fan instead of one day races, so just wanted to thank everyone that do the tours and the ones that do the calendar.

[Gipfelstuermer]

new Romanian race



Alkiza, Jaizkibel, Erlaitz, same as last year.

Pilotegi new! My design according to LFR, where they say 2.1km with average 10.6% and last km 14.5%:
+8 +15 -5 -11 -7 0 0 0

Mintact km220 (before Erlaitz also justifiable but wasn't like that last year so kept relatively short mintact).


Same as 2023

[Radunion]

Maybe a more general question. Are we trying to match the team size of the real races? In August this would mean 7 for Burgos, 7 for Pologne (if it did not change from last year), and 8 for Vuelta.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Maybe a more general question. Are we trying to match the team size of the real races? In August this would mean 7 for Burgos, 7 for Pologne (if it did not change from last year), and 8 for Vuelta.

Kind of. When the game was created, it was 9 riders per GT and that's how the game was balanced. In the meantime, bicycles and riders got faster and the UCI decided to put 8 riders per GT, but in this game bicycles and riders did not change, i.e. the game dynamics stayed the same. So we mostly target the real number +1 as far as I know. So for example Vuelta is 8+1 = 9, Burgos is 7+1 = 8 etc.

But of course always open to discussion. I think ideally in the long-run we'd adapt the game dynamics to go to the same number of riders as in reality (with faster bikes and stronger riders).

[Radunion]

Maybe a more general question. Are we trying to match the team size of the real races? In August this would mean 7 for Burgos, 7 for Pologne (if it did not change from last year), and 8 for Vuelta.

Kind of. When the game was created, it was 9 riders per GT and that's how the game was balanced. In the meantime, bicycles and riders got faster and the UCI decided to put 8 riders per GT, but in this game bicycles and riders did not change, i.e. the game dynamics stayed the same. So we mostly target the real number +1 as far as I know. So for example Vuelta is 8+1 = 9, Burgos is 7+1 = 8 etc.

But of course always open to discussion. I think ideally in the long-run we'd adapt the game dynamics to go to the same number of riders as in reality (with faster bikes and stronger riders).

Thanks for the clarification, I thought there is a reason, but could not see it. So it is mostly helper settings that would have to be adapted for smaller fields. A discussion nobody really wants to have and as we know Alk will not change the physics before he has done the background improvements.

[olmania]

Hand-designed with very little info from their website, might not be 100% accurate atm.

[Bugatti]

Is it possible to move Vuelta a Burgos from 15h to 14h?

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF online

- No Deutschland Tour because parallel programme is attractive enough with Poland and Benelux
- Vuelta at 9h (I guess should stop asking for 10h?)
- Burgos stays at 15h because we have/had TDF, Wallonie and Poland at 14

[Radunion]

I disagree, do not take Germany out, but make the Vuelta more attractive by adding Limousin directly before the Vuelta (13. - 16). I believe a Grand Tour is interesting enough for teams without making the parallel program less attractive. I see little reason not to ride tours where World Tour teams can participate (okay not 3 parallel tours if one is a Grand Tour, so no Hainan even if there is enough information to draw it). I believe we should have gone for Norway as well, but maybe it is too late for this now. If we decide to add those tours I should even be able to draw one on the weekend.

And do not get me wrong. This is not about my team, as I am not sure I would ride either of them.