November 2010

[Pirkio]

I join whit the group who want alternative tours

I've created a fantasy tour for november and i'm not the only one..Give us a chance (or two) classic race don't give the same competition gived from a tour.. and pair opportunity for not "bergteam"

Or if you don't like the fantasy tour so give us the bolivia

All talk always of the fairplay in the game.. Giving us the bolivia is a fairmove!

[Luna]

this it not the same...giro, tuor and vuelta are real RF, and in the same time give more intresting little tour or onedayrace

In may was Giro...at the same time
DUNKERQUE 5 days
5 LÄNDER 3 days
CALIFORNIA 8 days(why california 8 days was not a problem, and now 8 days is too much??)
BAYERN 5 days
BELGIQUE 5 days
PICARDIE 3 days

und now,is not allowed an 8 days tour!

What is your concern exactly? Do you complain about the Campeonato being cat 3 and the other only 1 or 2? Or is it just about the lenghts of the fantasy tours?

For the cat:
Tour, Giro, Vuelta = cat 5, Dunkerque, California, Bavaria = cat 3 (or minor)
Campeonato = cat 3, any other parallel tour, be it Bolivia or fantasy = cat 1 or 2
-> in both cases the teams who ride the "main event" are in advantage regarding ranking points.

you give a good chance only to the mountains specialized team...this is DISCRIMINATION

There are also classic teams with chances for stage wins in the Campeonato. Or for those who pick the right stage for an escape. Or even for those who dare to bring a sprinter or a "hill sprinter" to the race.


Another point:
Whether Bolivia or fantasy, it doesn't nullify the fact that the mountains specialized teams get a good chance at the Andes.
And there are many month where this or that sort of teams have a little advantage over the others. Cobbles and classics in spring, GT teams in months of GTs, sprinters in times of Qatar and Down Under and so on...


But the more I think about it, the more I indeed would prefer Bolivia over one or two fantasy tours. It's just the problem that we simply have that much tours in stock. And they are getting more. And the calendar doesn't have enough space for all of it. One day races always will get their time. But with the fantasy tours it's getting tight over the time...

[NoPikouze]

Anyway I think Leso said he would program 1 or 2 fantasy tours during the Andes. Problem solved.
Since the bolivian race can hardly be called "real"... Probably not a single "famous" rider!

[auxilium torino]

my problem is that you said no to bolivia RF, while is too long(8 days)....
and that i want ride real tour, and not fantasy!!!

[Luna]

Then go to Southland. A real race over 9 stages. Something that Andes teams are prohibited to race. That's the real race alternative to the Campeonoto de los Andes. It's there.

EDIT: Oh, it's not closed for Andes teams because it got moved by one day

[Luna]

@Leso: East Midland still available for instrciption.

[skull]

what about the Coppa Mosella and the Tour after Andes

[Robyklebt]

i think that you don't understand..in this form, nobody that don't ride Ande, will take a good point for is team...this IS discriminative!!!
"You" give to the other team, that no have a chance to win Andes, NO chance to ride and win another little important title!

Ande is only for team with a good Mountain team...while give not a good alternative race and tour to the others team??

Can you stick to one argument at least? Your mixing them up in every post now.

You're original point is: You want real races. Always and no matter how unimportant they are. That's why you want Bolivia.

The thing I quoted here is about something completely different. You say the teams that don't ride the Andes will be discriminated against. BUT... look at the preview, look at lesos posts, it's CLEAR that alternative Tours will be ridden. There is the alternative you demand in that post up here. And Bolivia of course would have to be cat 1. So wouldn't give the winner that many points either. All the stuff about discrimination is just populism, there will be alternatives, maybe you don't like them, but to deny that they are there is cheap populism.

I repeat, there will be alternative tours
That's a fact.

The question is WHAT? You say Bolivia because it's real.

Leso said no, reasons in his posts probably, not going to look back for it.

I agree with leso because:

- Bolivia is real, but VERY unimportant. 2.2. UCI calendar, cat 1 for us. If it was 2.1 or 2.HC or even ProTour, different thing. OK, 2.1 outside Europe doesn't mean that much either, but still different. Then ok, put it in probably, but 2.2.? It's real but worth nothing in the real cycling world.
- Bolivia is boring. Another specialized tour. The answer to a specialized Tour like the Andes is not to offer another specialized Tour for sprinters, or one for classic riders, but to offer balanced tours. By offering a climbers tour, then a parallel sprinter tour, then you have 2 specialized tours, which leaves all the non specialized teams out. Offer a few balanced tours, 4-5 days, sprint stages, middle mountain, TT, maybe one mountain stage, but not an extreme one, and everybody that doesn't want to or can't race the Andes has the opportunity to ride a small tour, that makes sense to ride for his team.
- Long. 8? 9? days, Some people won't ride the Andes because they don't have enough time. Some teams then wouldn't be able to ride Bolivia either because they don't have enough time. Small tours=more people have a chance to ride if they want to.
- We have soooo many fantasy tours in the vault. Use them. I would even propose: Another fantasy Tour in the beginning of the month, something like 3rd to 7th. Add another one 10th to 14th or so. But then don't put them in for every time, maybe only 2+2 when they overlap with another parallel tour. Use as many fantasy tours as possible now. If leso was to publish the fantasy tours that we still have, unridden, by now I think he would post around 30 tours. Some of them bad probably, some of them good.

[auxilium torino]

@ roby:
1)Bolivia for you is unimportant, but not for me!
2)I cannot plan for 15 days, but for 7/8 yes!
3)I want real long tour, and not 5 days fantasy, i don't like fantasy tour...

can you explain me, why must i ride a 5 days tour or a 15 days???
in moment in real give 7-8 Real that are 7-9 days long...why are not good??what is the problem, that are in afrika, asia or s.america??that are UCI 2.2...sorry, but i think that are not problem,only do you want force the player to Andes!that's all!
OL has design Bolivia, and i like this(I want design too), i thanks ol, and is not my problem when the Bolivia are Kat.1 or 2...
But i have no time for 15 days with more very long race...or give andes at 8 O'clock???

this one is another problem...i cannot ride the Giro for the same problem...stage are to long, and give only from 10 to 22...
i can long stage ride only in a onedayrace...
but if you want an Elite games, only for 100 players, must to say before man got a game and buy a licence.

[lesossies]

Alternative to Anden:

A WE-tour
Trans Sahara:





A 5 days-tour
Indonesia:






or

CENTOANNI
1a
1b
2
3
4
5
(I had the OK from Iban to reuse these nices races, I hope it is OK.)

[Pirkio]

Mi racer sante pollastri want this!

[sylvainmeteo]

I like the CENTOANNI tour ^^

[Robyklebt]

1)Bolivia for you is unimportant, but not for me!

Yes, important for you. Not for me. And not important in the real cycling world. Which in my opinion makes it dispensable in RSF.

2)I cannot plan for 15 days, but for 7/8 yes!

It's not about you, it's not about me, it's giving as many chances as possible to as many people as possible. For you 15 too much, 7/8 ok. My guess is that the shorter, the more people have a chance to do it. That while for you planning for 7/8 is ok, for some others 7/8 is already too much. 4-5 better. 6-8 difficult to impossible.

3)I want real long tour, and not 5 days fantasy, i don't like fantasy tour...

I like real tours, important tours and races in the main season. No criteriums though. I prefer Qinghai, even if it's kind of an idiotic parcours for RSF (lots of 5, few 5+) in Julyto a good fantasy tour in July. I think this year we had fantasy tours when there was enough important enough things in the real cycling season going on. Didn't like that either, but didn't even protest then, even though I think stuff like bourgogne or Ile de France had no reason to be in the calendar when they were. Others like it I guess. Everybody has different opinions about fantasy tours, when and how many, mine is no fantasy tours from march (or maybe even february now, calendar getting fuller and fuller there) to Lombardia, others think always ok, you on the other hand seem more extreme.

can you explain me, why must i ride a 5 days tour or a 15 days???

Can you explain why I must ride a 15 day tour or a 8 day tour? Your argument is REAL vs fantasy here, then stick to it. This one again is not a real argument, if Bolivia would be 5 days you would have no problem with it. My view is, again. Shorter races can be ridden by more managers. Irrelevant if they are real or fantasy. But since I see nothing important enough to is real and has to be in the calendar, I go for the short fantasy one. If the alternative is a fantasy 8 day tour I still say program the short 5 day one. Because it gives more people a chance to ride it.

in moment in real give 7-8 Real that are 7-9 days long...why are not good??what is the problem, that are in afrika, asia or s.america?? that are UCI 2.2..

Because as I said I think they are real, but very very unimportant. The elite doesn't start, actually isn't allowed to start in reality. Pro Tour teams for example not allowed to start in x.2 races, individual racers if they get permission like Leipheimer, Armstrong got for the Tour de Gila or something. So while those races are real, they are really unimportant in the real cycling world. I see no reason to put them in. Doesn't matter where they are, actually not completely true, I would rather have a 2.2 race in S.A., N.A., Asia or Africa than from Europe. But here the main reason for no is: Length, 8 or so days less managers can than shorter ones. And in the case of Bolivia. Just not an interesting parcours, another specialized Tour. Which I don't like, then we have 2 Tours for specialized teams parallel. The fantasy tours will probably be more interesting. And give more chances to ride for more people.

.sorry, but i think that are not problem,only do you want force the player to Andes!that's all!

You're wrong. I'm not riding the Andes myself this year, why should I force you to ride it? Try to get as many climbers team as possible to the Andes? YES, by not offering a second climbers tour parallel, by not offering climbing heavy parallel tours, doesn't mean no climbing or mountain top arrival in a parallel tour either. Encourage the climbers to go to the Andes, so that we have 5 good groups, but forcing players to go there? No.

OL has design Bolivia, and i like this(I want design too), i thanks ol, and is not my problem when the Bolivia are Kat.1 or 2...

It's cat 1, and I have a problem if it becomes cat 2. Like Sardegna, Algarve, Ruta del Sol etc. Which are 100 times more important.

But i have no time for 15 days with more very long race...or give andes at 8 O'clock???

See above, don't ride it. Ask leso for 8 am (will be hard, but if many people say they want to ride then he does it) Or don't ride it, you can't so you can't. But then why offer an 8 day tour parallel that again more people won't be able to ride? While very likely more people can ride a 5 day tour?

this one is another problem...i cannot ride the Giro for the same problem...stage are to long, and give only from 10 to 22...
i can long stage ride only in a onedayrace...
but if you want an Elite games, only for 100 players, must to say before man got a game and buy a licence

And again you are discussing something else. Your point that makes sense or is understandable, even if I don't agree is: Bolivia is a real race, so I want to ride it. The length itself has nothing to do with real or fantasy. I say no to an 8 day fantasy tour parallel to the Andes as well. Like to a real 2.2. one. I say no to a specialized fantasytour parallel to the Andes as well. Like to a real 2.2 one. That's 2 of my stated reasons for being against Bolivia here. Not sure where you got the "elite idea" from.

Then I'm 100% against offering Bolivia later. If anything, Bolivia at 1-2 times at the real date, PLUS the fantasy tours then, if it's like that I don't really mind or care. What I mind is having a hard mountain tour for 15 days, a boring sprint tour for 8 days, and not use any of the xx Fantasy tours that are waiting to be ridden, while it would be possible to schedule quite a few of them in November, because there really isn't anything important going on then.

[Pirkio]

Guys can we have ande, bolivia and fantasy tour in the same moment? or is a big problem for the server?

Fantasy tour is for the noob team (like me!) bolivia is for the sprint team and ande for berg team... So if there isn't a problem for the server i think this is possible for make all happy

[Lizard]

Guys can we have ande, bolivia and fantasy tour in the same moment? or is a big problem for the server?

Fantasy tour is for the noob team (like me!) bolivia is for the sprint team and ande for berg team... So if there isn't a problem for the server i think this is possible for make all happy

If we ride Centoanni or Indonesia we have stages for several different teams. And since almost everyone liked Centoanni in the votings last year it fits rather more than Bolivia - especially, because as far as I remember, the stages are taken from real Giro's, so it's something like real too

[el Galactico]

I want a tour for hill sprinters only. Its discrimination!!!!!!!

[Pirkio]

@ Leso

Can you change the 2 race of indonesia tour in a flat race?

4 day and 2 berg are so much... it is another berg tour.. Do it for the noobs please

[lesossies]

How is it with
Coppa Mosella 24.11
and fleche Jurassienne 28.11
the same course like last year ?

[Robyklebt]

Flèche Jurassienne: Same course says the designer
Mosella: The designer is missing since x years, so I guess the same course too?

Don't forget Bolkow Bolkow!

[Elaska]

What's the ITT for november ?

[olmania]

@RKL : Fleche Jurassienne maybe a HC BERG race

[Cerro Torre RT]

Why can't the Coppa Mosella not be named Coppa Mosella as it has been originally ?

[lesossies]

Normandie possible too:

[Elaska]

Ok very nice ! when the start ?

[lesossies]

@ Leso

Can you change the 2 race of indonesia tour in a flat race?

4 day and 2 berg are so much... it is another berg tour.. Do it for the noobs please

only 1 mountain stage !
the 2nd stage to Sumbul is for hillclimber.
in %:
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 0
2 0 2 1 2 3 2 -2 0 0 2 3 2 2 1 3 3 9 4 2 5 5 6 5 4 4 2 6 3 9 5 7 6 5 7
-3 3 6 4 5 -2 -1 0 -2 0 -1 -2 -1 -3 0 -3 -2 -3 -1 -2 -2 -1 -4 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 2 2 2
0 4 1 4 0 2 1 1 0 1 1 2 0 0 1 2 2 6 4 4 5 1 2 4 2 2 0