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RVV in Leso's box... Last 50km's the same as last year... Small changes for the rest but nothing really important!

GP Adria Mobil 05/04

lesossies wrote: Paris Roubaix


Little changes are possible

Hum maybe adapt the end of race leso, 4 lasts kms 1 1 -1 0 ?

Pokemon Club wrote: Hum maybe adapt the end of race leso, 4 lasts kms 1 1 -1 0 ?

OK, changed !

See RVV online remember one thing about some Paterberg complain after RVV 2014 race. Why not try Paterberg 5** instead of 7** ?

Pokemon Club wrote:See RVV online remember one thing about some Paterberg complain after RVV 2014 race. Why not try Paterberg 5** instead of 7** ?

Agree

Disagree

gaurain rx wrote:Disagree

So for you it is normal to have 70-80 70 paves stronger than 6x-8x 8x paves in Paterberg ? It is maybe at 13% overall but only 360m and it always influence it too much things in favor of classics. Usually we say it after the race, for one time let's do something before the race.

Pokemon Club wrote:

gaurain rx wrote:Disagree

So for you it is normal to have 70-80 70 paves stronger than 6x-8x 8x paves in Paterberg ? It is maybe at 13% overall but only 360m and it always influence it too much things in favor of classics. Usually we say it after the race, for one time let's do something before the race.

In 2010 it was a +6:

Name: Paterberg (berg with cobblestones)
Km: ? (362m long)
Average: 12,5%
Maximum: 20%
Adaptation RSF 2010: 206 (like Dwars door Vlaanderen)
Profile:

Same thing in 2011. Same thing here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=67&start=75#p52265

Even if actually RKL was for +7 at that time, "Paterberg again 400 meters 12.5%, has been 6 for us for 3 years I think... is that good. I don't know... others are longer but less steep and 6 too.. others have less altitude difference and are 6 too.. maybe Paterberg better at 7? Don't really know.. maybe yes... right now would put it at 7 actually, but was 6 forever, so ok.. Point is, % are not perfect either. But again, basically I'm against changes for Hellingen that have been ridden in 12 already. "

From 2013 it changed viewtopic.php?f=15&t=67&start=75#p67056

Then some other adjustment required by Nopik viewtopic.php?f=15&t=67&start=100#p78616

------------

Imo +7 is too much, +6 probably better. Buh did some modifications to pavé behaviour on hilly kms, how did it change? It became more/less selective?

Idéfix wrote:Hey!

I don't care, I will miss RVV ( ), but as an RSF rider, 5 is really not enough, considering the 12,5% average and 20% max. I did Paterberg (on a real bike^^), and it's really more difficult than a whole pavé km at 5%, maybe it is even more difficult than a pavé km at 6%! So 6** seems quite ok, but 7** does not shock me.

Agree with Idefix.. Rode there, that's way more dificult than one km of some of the ardenian classic climbs for example... Anyway, the % is in debate cause we don't exactly know how it affects stuffs in rsf + to answer to poke, in considering 60-80-80 should be stronger than 70-80-70 on Paterberg, you consider the first category kind of riders should be stronger than the second category... which is, imo, based on nothing but a "personal" preference or personal point of view.

As a Donkey I have only impersonal points of view, so in my impersonal point of view the pavé could actually be harder for RVV. Something somebody else, most likely Gaurain, mentioned once. Since for RVV the "sidething" is closed by barriers, riders are forced to ride on the pavé, so for RVV only it could be ***. That was his personal view if I remember correctly, and actually now my impersonal one too.

For the rest: Impersonal Donkey really likes continuity. In a year. So have the same percentages and pavé for the same hills. Not 5** in Dwars, 7*** in E3, 6** in RVV etc. If it's 7** for E3, have it at 7** in RVV. Change it next year if it needs to be changed. Except for the barrier thing, which can make some of the pavé harder in RVV

Robyklebt wrote:As a Donkey I have only impersonal points of view, so in my impersonal point of view the pavé could actually be harder for RVV. Something somebody else, most likely Gaurain, mentioned once. Since for RVV the "sidething" is closed by barriers, riders are forced to ride on the pavé, so for RVV only it could be ***. That was his personal view if I remember correctly, and actually now my impersonal one too.

For the rest: Impersonal Donkey really likes continuity. In a year. So have the same percentages and pavé for the same hills. Not 5** in Dwars, 7*** in E3, 6** in RVV etc. If it's 7** for E3, have it at 7** in RVV. Change it next year if it needs to be changed. Except for the barrier thing, which can make some of the pavé harder in RVV

Actually You mentioned it. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=67&start=75#p76774

Preview Castilla y Leon:

gaurain rx wrote:

Idéfix wrote:Hey!

I don't care, I will miss RVV ( ), but as an RSF rider, 5 is really not enough, considering the 12,5% average and 20% max. I did Paterberg (on a real bike^^), and it's really more difficult than a whole pavé km at 5%, maybe it is even more difficult than a pavé km at 6%! So 6** seems quite ok, but 7** does not shock me.

Agree with Idefix.. Rode there, that's way more dificult than one km of some of the ardenian classic climbs for example... Anyway, the % is in debate cause we don't exactly know how it affects stuffs in rsf + to answer to poke, in considering 60-80-80 should be stronger than 70-80-70 on Paterberg, you consider the first category kind of riders should be stronger than the second category... which is, imo, based on nothing but a "personal" preference or personal point of view.

Wrong, it is in debate because we rode enough races with this balance to know exactly how it works

Tro Bro Leon

Pokemon Club wrote:

gaurain rx wrote:

Idéfix wrote:Hey!

I don't care, I will miss RVV ( ), but as an RSF rider, 5 is really not enough, considering the 12,5% average and 20% max. I did Paterberg (on a real bike^^), and it's really more difficult than a whole pavé km at 5%, maybe it is even more difficult than a pavé km at 6%! So 6** seems quite ok, but 7** does not shock me.

Agree with Idefix.. Rode there, that's way more dificult than one km of some of the ardenian classic climbs for example... Anyway, the % is in debate cause we don't exactly know how it affects stuffs in rsf + to answer to poke, in considering 60-80-80 should be stronger than 70-80-70 on Paterberg, you consider the first category kind of riders should be stronger than the second category... which is, imo, based on nothing but a "personal" preference or personal point of view.

Wrong, it is in debate because we rode enough races with this balance to know exactly how it works

If you say so but you skip the main point

gaurain rx wrote:

Pokemon Club wrote:

gaurain rx wrote:

Idéfix wrote:Hey!

I don't care, I will miss RVV ( ), but as an RSF rider, 5 is really not enough, considering the 12,5% average and 20% max. I did Paterberg (on a real bike^^), and it's really more difficult than a whole pavé km at 5%, maybe it is even more difficult than a pavé km at 6%! So 6** seems quite ok, but 7** does not shock me.

Agree with Idefix.. Rode there, that's way more dificult than one km of some of the ardenian classic climbs for example... Anyway, the % is in debate cause we don't exactly know how it affects stuffs in rsf + to answer to poke, in considering 60-80-80 should be stronger than 70-80-70 on Paterberg, you consider the first category kind of riders should be stronger than the second category... which is, imo, based on nothing but a "personal" preference or personal point of view.

Wrong, it is in debate because we rode enough races with this balance to know exactly how it works

If you say so but you skip the main point

The same for you no ? Anyway, for me it is simple, hilly paves should be normally a question of "strengh" and not of "jump", in that case the hilly influence is clearly too much for Paterberg ( and for hilly paves in general), or we adapt it wrongly

Gilbert is a jump rider, but with a good pave skill, as Gaurain said me, a lot of style of rider can success in RVV, but all have a good pave ability, guys as Cancellara, Boonen, Kristoff, Vanmarcke, Thomas, etc... . They have some climbing abilities too, but they all are more strengh than jump IMO.

And for Paterberg, we can at least give a try at 7***.

Claude Criquelion.

Robyklebt wrote:Claude Criquelion.

No, José Samyn.

Do I really have to explain everything?
Criquielion won RVV. And he was definetly a JUMP guy.

Leso, today or max tomorrow morning I will put online Trentino

Robyklebt wrote:Do I really have to explain everything?
Criquielion won RVV. And he was definetly a JUMP guy.

but it isn't because he has a good jump only that he could win it, after I don't know, I didn't see his win, too old for me

Pokemon Club wrote:

Robyklebt wrote:Do I really have to explain everything?
Criquielion won RVV. And he was definetly a JUMP guy.

but it isn't because he has a good jump only that he could win it, after I don't know, I didn't see his win, too old for me

saw that couple of years ago, Boogerd was on the top 3 at the top of Muur van geraardsbergen with bettini almost in the wheel ^^

gaurain rx wrote:

Pokemon Club wrote:

Robyklebt wrote:Do I really have to explain everything?
Criquielion won RVV. And he was definetly a JUMP guy.

but it isn't because he has a good jump only that he could win it, after I don't know, I didn't see his win, too old for me

saw that couple of years ago, Boogerd was on the top 3 at the top of Muur van geraardsbergen with bettini almost in the wheel ^^

Haha

I am looking the top 10 of the 10 lasts editions :

2014
1 Fabian Cancellara Drapeau de la Suisse Suisse Trek Factory Racing en 6 h 15 min 25 s 100
2 Greg Van Avermaet Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique BMC Racing + 0 s 80
3 Sep Vanmarcke Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Belkin 0 s 70
4 Stijn Vandenbergh Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Omega Pharma-Quick Step 0 s 60
5 Alexander Kristoff Drapeau de la Norvège Norvège Katusha 8 s 50
6 Niki Terpstra Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Omega Pharma-Quick Step 18 s 40
7 Tom Boonen Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Omega Pharma-Quick Step 35 s 30
8 Geraint Thomas Drapeau : Royaume-Uni Royaume-Uni Sky 37 s 20
9 Björn Leukemans Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Wanty-Groupe Gobert 41 s
10 Sebastian Langeveld Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Garmin-Sharp 43 s 4

2013

Coureur Équipe Temps Points UCI
1 Drapeau : Suisse Fabian Cancellara (SUI) RadioShack-Leopard en 6 h 06 min 01 s 100
2 Drapeau : Slovaquie Peter Sagan (SVK) Cannondale + 1 min 27 s 80
3 Drapeau : Belgique Jürgen Roelandts (BEL) Lotto-Belisol 1 min 29 s 70
4 Drapeau : Norvège Alexander Kristoff (NOR) Katusha 1 min 39 s 60
5 Drapeau : France Matthieu Ladagnous (FRA) FDJ 1 min 39 s 50
6 Drapeau : Australie Heinrich Haussler (AUS) IAM 1 min 39 s -
7 Drapeau : Belgique Greg Van Avermaet (BEL) BMC Racing 1 min 39 s 30
8 Drapeau : France Sébastien Turgot (FRA) Europcar 1 min 39 s -
9 Drapeau : Allemagne John Degenkolb (GER) Argos-Shimano 1 min 40 s 10
10 Drapeau : Pays-Bas Sebastian Langeveld (NED) Orica-GreenEDGE 1 min 40 s 4

2012
1 Drapeau : Belgique Tom Boonen Omega Pharma-Quick Step en 6 h 04 min 33 s 100
2 Drapeau : Italie Filippo Pozzato Farnese Vini-Selle Italia + 0 s -
3 Drapeau : Italie Alessandro Ballan BMC Racing 1 s 70
4 Drapeau : Belgique Greg Van Avermaet BMC Racing 38 s 60
5 Drapeau : Slovaquie Peter Sagan Liquigas-Cannondale 38 s 50
6 Drapeau : Pays-Bas Niki Terpstra Omega Pharma-Quick Step 38 s 40
7 Drapeau : Italie Luca Paolini Katusha 38 s 30
8 Drapeau : France Thomas Voeckler Europcar 38 s -
9 Drapeau : Danemark Matti Breschel Rabobank 38 s 10
10 Drapeau : France Sylvain Chavanel Omega Pharma-Quick Step 38 s 4

2011
1 Nick Nuyens Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Saxo Bank-SunGard en 6 h 00 min 42 s 100
2 Sylvain Chavanel Drapeau de la France France Quick Step + 0 s 80
3 Fabian Cancellara Drapeau de la Suisse Suisse Leopard-Trek 0 s 70
4 Tom Boonen Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Quick Step 2 s 60
5 Sebastian Langeveld Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Rabobank 2 s 50
6 George Hincapie Drapeau des États-Unis États-Unis BMC Racing 5 s 40
7 Björn Leukemans Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Vacansoleil-DCM 5 s 30
8 Staf Scheirlinckx Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Veranda's Willems-Accent 5 s -
9 Philippe Gilbert Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Omega Pharma-Lotto 5 s 10
10 Geraint Thomas Drapeau : Royaume-Uni Royaume-Uni Sky

2010
1 Drapeau : Suisse Fabian Cancellara Team Saxo Bank en 6 h 25 min 56 s
2 Drapeau : Belgique Tom Boonen Quick Step + 1 min 15 s
3 Drapeau : Belgique Philippe Gilbert Omega Pharma-Lotto 2 min 11 s
4 Drapeau : Belgique Björn Leukemans Vacansoleil 2 min 15 s
5 Drapeau : États-Unis Tyler Farrar Garmin-Transitions 2 min 35 s
6 Drapeau : États-Unis George Hincapie BMC Racing 2 min 35 s
7 Drapeau : Royaume-Uni Roger Hammond Cervélo TestTeam 2 min 35 s
8 Drapeau : Kazakhstan Maxim Iglinskiy Astana 2 min 35 s
9 Drapeau : Allemagne Danilo Hondo Lampre-Farnese Vini 2 min 35 s
10 Drapeau : France William Bonnet BBox Bouygues Telecom 2 min 35 s

2009
1 Stijn Devolder Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Quick Step en 6 h 01 min 04 s 100
2 Heinrich Haussler Drapeau de l'Allemagne Allemagne Cervélo TestTeam + 59 s 80
3 Philippe Gilbert Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Silence-Lotto 59 s 70
4 Martijn Maaskant Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Garmin-Slipstream 59 s 60
5 Filippo Pozzato Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Katusha 59 s 50
6 Matti Breschel Drapeau du Danemark Danemark Saxo Bank 59 s 40
7 Marcus Burghardt Drapeau de l'Allemagne Allemagne Team Columbia-HTC 59 s 30
8 Björn Leukemans Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Vacansoleil 59 s 20
9 Martin Elmiger Drapeau de la Suisse Suisse AG2R La Mondiale 59 s 10
10 Bert De Waele Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Landbouwkrediet-Colnago 59 s 4

2008
1 Stijn Devolder Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Quick Step en 6 h 24 min 02 s 50
2 Nick Nuyens Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Cofidis + 15 s 40
3 Juan Antonio Flecha Drapeau de l'Espagne Espagne Rabobank 15 s 35
4 Alessandro Ballan Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Lampre 21 s 30
5 George Hincapie Drapeau des États-Unis États-Unis Team High Road 21 s 25
6 Filippo Pozzato Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Liquigas 21 s 20
7 Kurt Asle Arvesen Drapeau de la Norvège Norvège Team CSC 21 s 15
8 Greg Van Avermaet Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Silence-Lotto 21 s 10
9 Simon Špilak Drapeau de la Slovénie Slovénie Lampre 21 s 5
10 Allan Johansen Drapeau du Danemark Danemark Team CSC 21 s 2

2007
1 Alessandro Ballan Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Lampre-Fondital en 6 h 10 min 15 s 50
2 Leif Hoste Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Predictor-Lotto + 0 s 40
3 Luca Paolini Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Liquigas 5 s 35
4 Karsten Kroon Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Team CSC 5 s 30
5 Vladimir Gusev Drapeau de la Russie Russie Discovery Channel 5 s 25
6 Tomas Vaitkus Drapeau de la Lituanie Lituanie Discovery Channel 13 s 20
7 Nick Nuyens Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Cofidis 13 s 15
8 Dmitry Muravyev Drapeau du Kazakhstan Kazakhstan Astana 13 s 10
9 Michael Boogerd Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Rabobank 13 s 5
10 Stuart O'Grady Drapeau de l'Australie Australie Team CSC 35 s 2

2006
1 Tom Boonen Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Quick Step-Innergetic en 6 h 30 min 14s
2 Leif Hoste Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Discovery Channel + 0 s
DSQ George Hincapien 1 Drapeau des États-Unis États-Unis Discovery Channel 1 min 17 s
4 Peter Van Petegem Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Davitamon-Lotto 1 min 17 s
5 Alessandro Ballan Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Lampre-Fondital 1 min 17 s
6 Fabian Cancellara Drapeau de la Suisse Suisse Team CSC 1 min 17 s
7 Paolo Bettini Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Quick Step-Innergetic 1 min 50 s
8 Karsten Kroon Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Team CSC 1 min 50 s
9 Andreas Klier3 Drapeau de l'Allemagne Allemagne T-Mobile 1 min 50 s
10 Roberto Petito Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Tenax Salmilano 1 min 50 s

2005
1 Tom Boonen Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Quick Step-Innergetic en 6 h 22 min 00 s
2 Andreas Klier Drapeau de l'Allemagne Allemagne T-Mobile + 35 s
3 Peter Van Petegem Drapeau de la Belgique Belgique Davitamon-Lotto 40 s
4 Erik Zabel Drapeau de l'Allemagne Allemagne T-Mobile 40 s
5 Roberto Petito Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Fassa Bortolo 40 s
6 Alessandro Ballan Drapeau de l'Italie Italie Lampre-Caffita 40 s
DSQ George Hincapien 1 Drapeau des États-Unis États-Unis Discovery Channel 1 min 42 s
8 Léon van Bon Drapeau des Pays-Bas Pays-Bas Davitamon-Lotto 1 min 42 s
9 Sergueï Ivanov Drapeau de la Russie Russie T-Mobile 1 min 42 s
10 Vladimir Gusev Drapeau de la Russie Russie Team CSC 1 min 42 s


Definitively, there is more paves specialist than Amstel/Fleche/LBL riders at the finish normally