October 2011

[Woddeltown Team]

save as: lombardei11

Brr after this two hours i really hate Italian Maps.
The roadbook is not very useful in my opinion, but better than nothing. I did my best, hopefully i got it right.

[Alkworld]

Three things come to my mind here:
1) Pls use the name of the race of the previous years ("Lombardia"). That way the history in the statistics continues to work.
2) As this is one of the highlights of the year for most teams, the minute tact should start later. I would recommend at least km186 or maybe even around km150.
3) It seems to me that the last hill looks a bit smaller than in the published profile, which seems to be very detailed (http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2011/giro- ... 11_alt.jpg):
- from 228,6 - 232, they go up 240m, you go up 220m from 228 - 232
- from 232-238, they go down 320m, you go down 300m
It sounds like a small difference, but in RSF it changes the race drastically. And as this is the most decisive climb in the whole race, we should clarify, who is using the better map

[Woddeltown Team]

Three things come to my mind here:
1) Pls use the name of the race of the previous years ("Lombardia"). That way the history in the statistics continues to work.
2) As this is one of the highlights of the year for most teams, the minute tact should start later. I would recommend at least km186 or maybe even around km150.
3) It seems to me that the last hill looks a bit smaller than in the published profile, which seems to be very detailed (http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2011/giro- ... 11_alt.jpg):
- from 228,6 - 232, they go up 240m, you go up 220m from 228 - 232
- from 232-238, they go down 320m, you go down 300m
It sounds like a small difference, but in RSF it changes the race drastically. And as this is the most decisive climb in the whole race, we should clarify, who is using the better map

1.) I changed the name. Or do i have to change the filename? If both maybe Leso can fix it.
2.) I took the minute tact at 220...and you say later? Or you mean earlier?
3.) at 228 to 232 i go up 260 (4,6,6,9,1)...mh don't know....checked the profile twice. I don't know it we use it or we should change it.
From km 233 to 238 you are right, i did a mistake at 235.

Thx for feedback

[Alkworld]

Three things come to my mind here:
1) Pls use the name of the race of the previous years ("Lombardia"). That way the history in the statistics continues to work.
2) As this is one of the highlights of the year for most teams, the minute tact should start later. I would recommend at least km186 or maybe even around km150.
3) It seems to me that the last hill looks a bit smaller than in the published profile, which seems to be very detailed (http://www.grassyknolltv.com/2011/giro- ... 11_alt.jpg):
- from 228,6 - 232, they go up 240m, you go up 220m from 228 - 232
- from 232-238, they go down 320m, you go down 300m
It sounds like a small difference, but in RSF it changes the race drastically. And as this is the most decisive climb in the whole race, we should clarify, who is using the better map

1.) I changed the name. Or do i have to change the filename? If both maybe Leso can fix it.
2.) I took the minute tact at 220...and you say later? Or you mean earlier?
3.) at 228 to 232 i go up 260 (4,6,6,9,1)...mh don't know....checked the profile twice. I don't know it we use it or we should change it.
From km 233 to 238 you are right, i did a mistake at 235.

Thx for feedback

1) I think name is enough, but the calendar experts can say what it's like
2) Yes, I meant earlier
3) with 228 - 232, I meant 228,0 - 232,0. So these would be only 4km, not 5 like you mention

[Robyklebt]

Great info on the site


Nothing to say.

HOrrible to design without map, came online now, not precise, but seem to have the correct ciruit.. well maybe


King or queen or whatever stage.

Idiotic stage that was impossible to design without the map.

Idiotic stage that I didn't even bother tracking it.

Beijing, weahther I put something spring or autumn so it more or less fits the temperatures best, sout autumn maybe?

[Woddeltown Team]

1) I think name is enough, but the calendar experts can say what it's like
2) Yes, I meant earlier
3) with 228 - 232, I meant 228,0 - 232,0. So these would be only 4km, not 5 like you mention

Okay i put the minute tact on 190km. I guess earlier makes no sense, because the race becomes longer and longer.
For the height, i don't know if it makes sence....anyone other opinions would be great to it

[Robyklebt]

http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/October_2011.pdf
Who want to draw ?
Tours:
Beijing -> RKL
Tour des Pavés -> Alkworld
Jura -> ZL

1 day races:

Paris Tours
Binche - Tournai -> should be the same ?
Paris Bourges -> seems to be the same ?
Sluitingprijs -> should be the same ?
Chrono Nations -> the same

October 2011
01 Oct Memorial Marco Pantani (Gsemilia.it) Ita 1.1 2011
01 Oct Piccolo Giro di Lombardia Ita 1.2 2011...AUX draw it
02 Oct Tour de Vendée Fra 1.HC 2011
03 Oct Sparkassen Münsterland-Giro Ger 1.1 2011
02 Oct? Criterium International de la Comunidad Valenciana Esp Cri -
04 Oct Binche - Tournai - Binche Bel 1.1 2010
05-08 Oct? Grand prix Chantal Biya Cmr 2.2 X
05-09 Oct Tour of Beijing Chn WT 2011
06 Oct Coppa Sabatini Ita 1.1 X....AUX draw it
06 Oct Paris-Bourges Fra 1.1 2011
06-09 Oct Tour of Alanya Tur 2.2 X
07 Oct Zwevezele Koers Bel Nat 2011
08 Oct Giro dell'Emilia (Gsemilia.it) Ita 1.HC 2011....AUX draw it
09 Oct Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli (Gsemilia.it) Ita 1.1 2010....AUX draw it
09 Oct India Cyclothon Delhi Ind 1.2 2011
09 Oct? Paris-Tours Fra 1.HC 2010
09 Oct? Paris-Tours "Espoirs" Fra 1.2U 2010
10-18 Oct? Tour of Hainan (Tohcr.com)Chn 2.HC 2011
11 Oct Nationale Sluitingprijs - Putte-Kapellen Bel 1.1 2011
12 Oct Milano-Torino Ita 1.HC let the old version, as ever
13 Oct Giro del Piemonte / Gran Piemonte Ita 1.HC 2010....AUX draw it
15 Oct Giro di Lombardia Ita WT 2011....AUX draw it
15-23 Oct? Tour do Brasil Volta Ciclística de São Paulo-Internacional Bra 2.2 2010
16 Oct Chrono des Nations Les Herbiers Vendée Fra 1.1 2011
18-23 Oct? National Championships Medellín (Ciclismodecolombia.com) Col NCH 2010
19-30 Oct? Vuelta a Guatemala (Edosof.com) Gua 2.2 2010
21-30 Oct? Tour du Faso Bur 2.2 2010
21-23 Oct? Tour de Seoul Kor 2.2 2010
22 Oct? Tour of Taihu Lake (.org) Chn 1.2 2010
23 Oct? Criterium Vuelta a Chihuahua Internacional Mex Cri 2010
23 Oct? Japan Cup Cycle Road Race Jpn 1.HC 2010
23 Oct-02 Nov? Speedy Tour d'Indonesia (Telkomspeedy.com) Ina 2.2 2010
29 Oct? Cancun Cycling Challenge Mex Cri 2010AUX draw it
29 Oct? Criterium Ciclista Ciudad de Oviedo Esp Cri 2010

Same profile then 2010
new profile online to draw
new profile online drawed
not proflie online
delete

About Lombardia

Please always check the first post.

Here Aux had already said he draws it.

[auxilium torino]

right, i must say , is drawed, but i want check the last news from gazzetta, before to give the race free

[NoPikouze]

1) I think name is enough, but the calendar experts can say what it's like
2) Yes, I meant earlier
3) with 228 - 232, I meant 228,0 - 232,0. So these would be only 4km, not 5 like you mention

Okay i put the minute tact on 190km. I guess earlier makes no sense, because the race becomes longer and longer.
For the height, i don't know if it makes sence....anyone other opinions would be great to it

KM 150 ! It's a monument

[auxilium torino]

[auxilium torino]

a little explication for Woddeltown Team:
in internet give no race that is nearly good explained like rcs/gazzetta race.
Profile, plain and Cronotabella(roadbook) are nearly perfect, italian are one of the few side that give altitude too in cronotabella, that make your job very easy, that you can control at every important passage the right altitude.
RCS/Gazzetta profile are ever reallly close to T4B design, normal, if you look good at plain, you need few time to draw it.

second, really important too:
1 km./tac. must start before km. 186, while the Ghisallo is the must important piece in this race, and km. 188 to 190 are very selective, and this is the key issue.

[iBanesto]

Two odd things:

1. Downhill from Ghisallo: -5 -9 -1 -5 -2 -5 -3 1 0 2 0 -5 -9 2 -11 -5
It doesn't look steep anywhere in the Gazzetta profile and it doesn't look steep here http://www.salite.ch/7000/7327.gif

2. Flat section between Ghisallo and Villa Vergano. It's perfectly flat in the Gazzetta profile, but you have those odd bumps in there. Are you sure these aren't faults from T4B or whatever you used?

[Woddeltown Team]

a little explication for Woddeltown Team:
in internet give no race that is nearly good explained like rcs/gazzetta race.
Profile, plain and Cronotabella(roadbook) are nearly perfect, italian are one of the few side that give altitude too in cronotabella, that make your job very easy, that you can control at every important passage the right altitude.
RCS/Gazzetta profile are ever reallly close to T4B design, normal, if you look good at plain, you need few time to draw it.

Nearly perfect? Mh...if you think so. The Profile is really good yes, the road map is so lala and actually the road book could be better.
There were even streets and street numbers i couldn't find on T4B.
And in the end the difference between our draws are very little.

second, really important too:
1 km./tac. must start before km. 186, while the Ghisallo is the must important piece in this race, and km. 188 to 190 are very selective, and this is the key issue.

Different point of views, but okay, everyone has other opinions.


But I think we make more problems than we have. And i guess it is better for Leso if he has two or three options/draws for a race than none.

[auxilium torino]

Two odd things:

1. Downhill from Ghisallo: -5 -9 -1 -5 -2 -5 -3 1 0 2 0 -5 -9 2 -11 -5
It doesn't look steep anywhere in the Gazzetta profile and it doesn't look steep here http://www.salite.ch/7000/7327.gif

2. Flat section between Ghisallo and Villa Vergano. It's perfectly flat in the Gazzetta profile, but you have those odd bumps in there. Are you sure these aren't faults from T4B or whatever you used?

Downhill from Ghisallo:
YES, is the piece from Asso to Valbrona, circa 4 km. with light uphill(30-40 mt. altitude)

Flat section:you are right, my error

[iBanesto]

Ghisallo downhill: No, that's not what I meant. I was thinking about these parts:


-5 -9 -1 -5 -2 -5 -3 1 0 2 0 -5 -9 2 -11 -5

9%, 11%, is it really so steep and the next Km almost flat?

[auxilium torino]

yes, after the max. points, a light descent(falsopiano) to Magreglio, after to go down to Barni.

The second piece of strong descent is to reach the Gallerie, that are on the coast of the little lake.
This strong descent side, are tipical in north italian mountain,that stay beside little lake.

[auxilium torino]

11 Oct Nationale Sluitingprijs - Putte-Kapellen Bel 1.1
last year on 12 Oct

[auxilium torino]

Japan cup. look the same the last year.
changed is the categorie;this year is an 1HC(last year was UCI 1.1, if i good remember).
third year in row present in us calender...promote to Cat. 3 at RSF?

@roby:
was last year tour of bejhing online, maybe under tour of China?

do you want draw the tour of Hainan?

[Woddeltown Team]

15 rounds at 9,6km

[Robyklebt]

Ghisallo downhill?

salite.ch? Not to be trusted
tracks4bikers: Don't know if something changed, but used to take a point every 300 meters. In Europe the roads in the right place mostly, but still not really precise. Do the same route 4 times and you'll get something slightly different 4 times...

Cronotabella says from 756 to 206, in 16,5 km. 550 meters. Aux goes down 550 meters, correct. Woddeltown the same.
Cronotabella says in 0,9 km down 12 meters. In 1 km Aux goes down 50, Woddel 40. Strange
Cronotabella says in 6,4 km down 261 meters. In 6 km Aux goes down 270 in 7 300. Woddel goes down 260 in 6, 290 in 7.
Cronotabella says in 8,3 km down to 444 meters so 312 down. Aux goes down 290 in 8, Woddel goes down 320
Cronotabella says in 11,1 km at 490, so 266 meters down, Aux goes down 270, Woddel goes down 300

What does that tell us? That the ape is right and T4b just not that good. If you want more precision, not perfect either of course, go for google earth with srtm (the GPS Track Analyse.NET)

So what does the great google earth-srtm combi say?
Nothing. It's still opening the page where I want to download the srtm file... taking ages again.... probably will post the result in an hour...

Anyway, just google earth gave the first km as a -2. So even without SRTM that's closer to the cronotabella than both t4b versions. Now it doesn't really matter that much for the downhill (although have to say that even pure google earth didn't give any -9 or 11) but the climbs are something else. Especially climbs like the Ghisallo that will appear every year, don't just take tracks4bikers and let's see what it says this time... Both your Ghisallo climbs are fairly different too... one has
+2+4+13+7+11+5+2-1-2+8+5 The other has
+1+8+9+10+7+7+1-3+3+10+2
So again to fairly different versions. And using the same program. Salite Ch would roughly say (yep, I started downloading but tells me 10 minutes to go...) ah fuck it, not interested in salite.ch in the least.
Since by now my download of the huge 1,2 MB file threatens to take another 2hours 5 minutes I go and look for the 2010 Lombardia profiles, maybe they had the Ghisallo as detail? Ok, not found anything. Ah, so I checked the RSF version 2010
+0+2+3+11+8+9+7+0+0+8+5

The same 11 km, a third version. Tracks4bikers at work.

So, forget t4b and go google earth. while I keep downloading that superb file... 7h29 to go, yeah!...

[Robyklebt]

Aux, no and no.

[Robyklebt]

SRTM says

0 756
1 739 -2
2 672 -7
3 612 -6
4 584 -3
5 547 -3 (or -4 and adjust another one)
6 519 -3
7 490 -3
8 465 -2/3 (after 8.272 at 440, so adjusting further down to 440 here and back up would make sense, meaning -5 here and +2 the next)
9 463 0/-1
10 467 /0+1
11 488 +2/3
12 488 0
13 436 -5
14 368 -7
15 319 -5 (and here lots of "saws" shows that the data here is imprecise. smaller saws at 12+13 too,
16 241 -8
16,5 209 -3

Again, srtm is not perfect either, the second part of the downhill is a "saw" too, but unless you go there with your GPS it's the most precise system.
So again, for repeated races, climbs, don't even waste your time on t4b. Go google earth.

[auxilium torino]

right, but you forget we have not the half km.
depending of the start point, can change the next mess point, that can change a lot in draw an complete km.
second, i try one time with google heart(Padania), was a really really big error, give my see at 50 mt. (?), arrive from mountain stage 500 (five hundred, you read right) mt. under the right level...
simply, perfect is really hard to find, i looking a pair of site maps from cycling club, etc., find one too like iban say, one like my design :S, i look the relieve too, and bild, and i decide for this way.

[Robyklebt]

perfect is impossible to find
but better than t4b is easy.

[Radunion]

Just opened the October PDF. Do you really think cat 1 is appropriate for Beijing. All the big teams have to be there, so it should be treated like ENECO or Poland and given cat 3.

Second, is it really necessary to ride fantasy tours during the real season (before Lombardia)? There are many real one day races and there is no reason to distract teams by the money they can earn in fantasy tours.