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Hanse wrote:

MiSa wrote:Am of the same opinion as claw. 20:00 for me too early and 22: 00 to late. 21: 00 is world class.

Thanks Misa 20.00 is ok for me but 21.00 isn´t good so i can´t ride shike tour really thank

oO not his fault - for him its better, for me too, and there are others with the same advantage..
on 20 and 22, i would not be able to ride, for example

but we can discuss..

claw wrote: but we can discuss..

I can throw a coin ?

Make it 21 - 23 so you can try out for the coming year. I guess Dec-Tour is rated lower than GTs and Campeonato... so if 21 - 23 works out you can keep these times for 2011 GTs.

lesossies wrote:

claw wrote: but we can discuss..

I can throw a coin ?

you could..

No it´s ok is better for me if i can´t ride december tour because it isn´t really good for me so i ride the giro d´abruzo but i hope this will be at 20.00



and the gt´s in the next year also at 20.00 because i´m 14 years and 21.00 is too late because i had to go to school ^^

Ha! I want to give my opinion about the times (in a general way, don't care about any tour specifically)

I don't like the trio 18-20-22, because it's too tight and when you have to go to football practice from 20 to 22, these 3 times are almost impossible to ride. I think moving one race to 17 or 23 would be better. For me. But I understand that it's not fine for everybody neither.
Anyone else has this kind of problem ?

20 - 23 Make all happy?

Pirkio wrote:20 - 23 Make all happy?

worst scenario..^^

What about 19:00 tours if we are in this discussion at the moment? I dont see any of them, but for me it a perfect time. No stress with the wayy home from work, then i can easily play. after that enough time for the girls and on the weekend its early enough to go on a party after the race...

19 is kind of the fucked time with the 5 times we have.

19-21-23? maybe too much.
17-19-22? Kind of kills the evening 2 times thing, instead gives 2 to the "Vorabend".

With 4 times IMO 19 would often have been a nice option, 16-19-21/22, and when there was a tour at 19 often it was popular. But even now when we have 4 tours 19 isn't there often. Ask for more! Almost impossible for a tour with 5 times, but with 4 should work.

I don't get it. Why not the classical combination 10-15-18-20-22? or if better 4 times: 10-15-18-21...

Just because some teams don't have time for it then? Well, that happens. You can't make it right for everybody.

Because then always the same ones miss out.

Giro 10-15-18-20-22
TdF 10-14-18-20-22
Vuelta 10-15-18-20-22
Andes 10-15-18-20-22

What do we see: Except for once in the afternoon it's always the same ones that can't. Even there I think a bit more variety would be nice. Why not an afternoon Tour at 16? Why not a Vorabend at 19? Why no 21? Why no 23? Morning at 9 or 11... ok that one maybe less, 11 eats into the lunchbreak, 9 somehow not so popular too. Why always the same times? On one hand, ok, you know when it will be almost a year ahead (except for the Vuelta 09 when it was decided 5-3 days before the start that it wouldn't be ridden in the afternoon) but at the same time it's always the same guys that won't be able to ride if those times don't fit. Yeah, especially in the evening, ONLY 21 possible, ok, if you have only one time that you can, normal that you'll miss a lot, I think generally a 2-3 hours flexibility can be expected (and doesn't help the afternoon, Vuelta 09 showed that we have to have at least a 4 hours window...) But still, ONLY 21 possible. If we have 5x times 20-22 in the evening for the "GTs", that guy will miss 5. The guy that is not more flexible, ONLY can 22, will be able to ride all 5. The majority is probably flexible enough to find time between 20-22/21-23 to be able to ride anyway, doesn't matter if it's 20-22 or 21-23. But why punish the unflexible 21 guy more than the unflexible 22 guy?

I think getting away from the ultrastrict 10-15-18-20-22 is good. For the afternoon I don't mind if we have 3 times 15, once 14 once 16, even if right now I probably would miss the 14 edition, tough luck. Others (Marzahn for example I think) only can at 14h in the afternoon and don't mind riding in the afternoon sometimes I think. Same for the pre evening. 18-18-18-18. What about 19? What about 17? (Ok, 17 got way too many GTs and other races in 09 and was generally much weaker than 18+19..) I think it's good to shake it up a little. 10-15-18-20-22 as a standard, ok, they'll get 3 of 5 of the Gts or something, but let the other times, 14-16-17-19-21-23 something too. Especially 21 was always very popular, 19 never gets anything, but when it does it's very popular too. 14-16 generally defend themselves well too.

IMO 100% right decision this time to give it to 21-23 for once.You can't make it right for everybody. But everybody doesn't always have to be the same guys.

Ah ok, I see. Well, then I guess it's justified to use other times than that. 8-12-17-21-23?

If there is huge demand for it, why not? But as you know 8 is always a candidate for ultra small groups.... 12 is lunch break, 17 IMO has proven itself to be the weakest of the pre-evening...

And you troll, you know exactly that 2 of the times you chose are outside the established morning-afternoon thingies.... so for main events, not the best times anyway.... for other stuff? Ok, and Leso does it sometimes. 13h tours etc. No problem.

Enough feeding the troll now.

Expecially for you, I used a smiley, so I thought It would be clear that this was a joke! The ape would have understood... And now I am not hungry anymore.

Thanks to the christmas time at the moment i am able to ride also at 15 (so i will kick your ass at Sheikh probably), but basically the ape is right. In summer, my only chances are 14 and with some deductions (right word?) 23.
So i am very happy that mostly the TDF starts at 14, because all the other Grand Tours i am not able to ride because of the given times.

Have you already discussed the Jubi-race at the 27th?

I complain against Coppa Placci in december!

It's a TRADIONAL italian race. Not raced last year, or somehow was kind of the italian championship or something slightly confusing. This year U23. In September. IF we want to keep the Coppa Placci, ok. In September. By having it in December we're disrespecting this great race, not honouring it. Dishonouring the winners list. Because what we are riding is not the Coppa Placci, not even the U23 version of this year, what we're riding is a race that we call Coppa Placci that is raced on the Coppa Placci U23 course from this year but that takes place in the "Nebennebenprogramm" in December. Is like doing Flanders in December as cat 3 next to the Dec Tour and another small tour, because we have a huge server breakdown in April. Scandalous

IF you want to use the profile: Rename the race. Coppa Placci Amateurs whatever. Make sure the winners of this "fake december edition" don't appear in our real Coppa Placci statistic. Make it Cat 1. If we had ridden it on the right date, ok, can still get cat 2, like Zürich, Milano Torino and other races that aren't ridden anymore still get a small cat bonus. But not in the completely wrong season. Coppa Placci in December. If you want another cat 2 race in Dec, put in your favorite one day fantasy race of 09. Or add the "2. Rheingau-Taunus Kreis Kriterium" as 3. Rheingau Taunus Kreis Kriterium as cat 2 on the 12th. I guess would be the third edition, why not. (even though it's another pavé-hill mix we have enough of those as RSF classics, but so be it.) Who cares finally what you put in if you want a higher cat 1-day race during Sheik.(which IMO would be good and fair) But don't desrepect and dishonour the Coppa Placci by making it a worthless december cat 2 thing. Not under this name, not as cat 2. Coppa Placci Amateurs: Ok. cat 1. Ok.

Next year in the calendar again, 30.07 planned. If it's raced, clearly cat 3 again, parallel to San Sebastian. If it ends up as a U23 thing again, still race it, parallel to San Sebastian. cat 2 or cat 3, the old "cancelled races that get the bonus thing. But is on the right date. But no "Coppa Placci" in december!

I agree with Roby

Luna wrote:I agree with Roby

Me too, but it's not really important.

I could rename it.
p.e. : Coppa Placci Juvenile or Coppa Placci Esp.... or Coppa Placci for Dummies

Auxilium drew it and was very interested I program it

bad Leso!!!!

one more point at my "Grrrr Leso List"

@topic: the great ape is right, support the ape

I disagree with le singe because he writes way too much to make his point which was quite simple!

Had to write it precisely, so that Aix understands it too in case he reads this thread.