cycling4freaks.com

Well, I add my opinion as well. I do not think we have enough teams for five Editions of the Tour. Riding in small fields (or whatever you want to call them) earns lots of money but is no fun. So 2 points against 5 Editions. For The two June tours, just keep to the calendar. Riding the races on the days of the real races is a strong point of the game. Plus, we would get many more demands to change date if we start doing this.

I don't find it interesting to overlap the 2 tours. Especially the Tour de Suisse and the Dauphiné, which are known to be two separate preparatory races for the Tour de France. It's like overlapping Tirenno and Paris nice. It's an open door to everything. Plus the overlap is insane ahah

welcome to the andes, with 3TT, 11 mountain stages and 2 sprints over the next 15 days.

olmania wrote: ↑

Thu May 16, 2024 11:00 pm

In case that could be useful for a bit of diversity in June, here's the design of the lowcat Lithuania tour :

I would like to ride this one, especially since i will probably miss Suisse and Dauphine.

Picture so far:

- 5 editions for TDF seems possible. User stats continued strong throughout the Giro with good numbers in the parallel progamme. Question is between 18-20-22 and 19-21-23 then. Is it possible to gain even more insight from the 19h teams here? Are there a few more (like Romoc) who would enjoy an 18h TDF (but stayed silent so far)? Then it would become very likely. Afternoon 14h is clear. Morning, please can any teams speak up before the 25th if they would like 10h? Otherwise will change it back to 9 (but if there is anyone for 10, should be 10 this time after 10 has missed out so often).

- No clear majority for delaying the TdS prologue, so Dauphine and TdS will continue to overlap as proposed in the preview PDF. Should be good for one day race participation then. 2 editions each also seems fine as both tours are somewhat specialized mountainous tours. Exact times subject to TDF times. Could argue as TDF preparation they should have the same times, but I think better to mix it around a little bit (so if you don't get your favorite TDF time, at least you get that time for Dauphine/TdS).

- Some small fantasy tour post-TdS and pre-TDF (the end of June gap) comes back into play. Prefer fantasy over real race for various reason, partially described by others. First of all, real race on real date is important to the game, as confirmed in this Dauphine/TdS discussion. Secondly, keep fantasy designers motivated. Thirdly, a very short tour (3 or 4 days max) should be enough. And last but not least, we could use a fantasy tour to potentially test TDF-boni-settings before the TDF (if Alk and I find the time to implement the special TDF 8-5-2 bonus seconds, which is unclear now, but would like to keep the option). So 3 or 4 days fantasy tours can be proposed (unless AAD already has a perfect fit in mind). One day fantasy races will also be needed a lot in June.

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 10:35 am

Question is between 18-20-22 and 19-21-23 then.

If we go for 5 editions i think 20h should get one (missed out since we went down to 4 editions for gts, i think). 18 missed out a couple times too because it was a better fit for a couple teams (like chense and me) but i guess either 18h or 20h will fit for all of them too.i will mention the discussion in the 19h giro what other teams think

i would say 4 editions should be enough.

32 teams in the evening / early evening now, would lead to three roundabout 10 teams editions....

well like in the morning and afternoon ... but still i would prefer a bigger group and so stay with 4 editions.

evening edition 22h i would prefer

I would prefer 9am TDF.

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 10:35 am

Picture so far:

- 5 editions for TDF seems possible. User stats continued strong throughout the Giro with good numbers in the parallel progamme. Question is between 18-20-22 and 19-21-23 then. Is it possible to gain even more insight from the 19h teams here? Are there a few more (like Romoc) who would enjoy an 18h TDF (but stayed silent so far)? Then it would become very likely. Afternoon 14h is clear. Morning, please can any teams speak up before the 25th if they would like 10h? Otherwise will change it back to 9 (but if there is anyone for 10, should be 10 this time after 10 has missed out so often).

- No clear majority for delaying the TdS prologue, so Dauphine and TdS will continue to overlap as proposed in the preview PDF. Should be good for one day race participation then. 2 editions each also seems fine as both tours are somewhat specialized mountainous tours. Exact times subject to TDF times. Could argue as TDF preparation they should have the same times, but I think better to mix it around a little bit (so if you don't get your favorite TDF time, at least you get that time for Dauphine/TdS).

- Some small fantasy tour post-TdS and pre-TDF (the end of June gap) comes back into play. Prefer fantasy over real race for various reason, partially described by others. First of all, real race on real date is important to the game, as confirmed in this Dauphine/TdS discussion. Secondly, keep fantasy designers motivated. Thirdly, a very short tour (3 or 4 days max) should be enough. And last but not least, we could use a fantasy tour to potentially test TDF-boni-settings before the TDF (if Alk and I find the time to implement the special TDF 8-5-2 bonus seconds, which is unclear now, but would like to keep the option). So 3 or 4 days fantasy tours can be proposed (unless AAD already has a perfect fit in mind). One day fantasy races will also be needed a lot in June.

I don't have a solid reason for picking 18h ahead of 19h. I just think it would suit me better. I would join both of them.
Also, it looks like 20h might be popular for some teams (such as Hansa). That being said, i think 18-20 split would be a better split.
For the late evening one, i think 22h could be better, but I don't really see myself joining that field. I would rather pick afternoon (14h if possible) instead of late evening.

If we keep the overlap, what other tour will be in June?

I would prefer 4 editions with more teams. Just my personal opinion. I am not sure if I will start the TDF but if, only 21 or 22 possible. 23:00 too late for me in 3 weeks.

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 10:35 am

Picture so far:

- 5 editions for TDF seems possible. User stats continued strong throughout the Giro with good numbers in the parallel progamme. Question is between 18-20-22 and 19-21-23 then. Is it possible to gain even more insight from the 19h teams here? Are there a few more (like Romoc) who would enjoy an 18h TDF (but stayed silent so far)? Then it would become very likely. Afternoon 14h is clear. Morning, please can any teams speak up before the 25th if they would like 10h? Otherwise will change it back to 9 (but if there is anyone for 10, should be 10 this time after 10 has missed out so often).

- No clear majority for delaying the TdS prologue, so Dauphine and TdS will continue to overlap as proposed in the preview PDF. Should be good for one day race participation then. 2 editions each also seems fine as both tours are somewhat specialized mountainous tours. Exact times subject to TDF times. Could argue as TDF preparation they should have the same times, but I think better to mix it around a little bit (so if you don't get your favorite TDF time, at least you get that time for Dauphine/TdS).

- Some small fantasy tour post-TdS and pre-TDF (the end of June gap) comes back into play. Prefer fantasy over real race for various reason, partially described by others. First of all, real race on real date is important to the game, as confirmed in this Dauphine/TdS discussion. Secondly, keep fantasy designers motivated. Thirdly, a very short tour (3 or 4 days max) should be enough. And last but not least, we could use a fantasy tour to potentially test TDF-boni-settings before the TDF (if Alk and I find the time to implement the special TDF 8-5-2 bonus seconds, which is unclear now, but would like to keep the option). So 3 or 4 days fantasy tours can be proposed (unless AAD already has a perfect fit in mind). One day fantasy races will also be needed a lot in June.

For me that is sad, I just ride tours as one day races are not really fun to me and only having 2 tours this month and both over lapping when it is easy to fix it by a prologue...

I would like to have more tours even if they are less relevant or small categories. Of course I can not say much as I do not build races. Just saying what I would like to see.

RACPTeam

QuickSprint wrote: ↑

Thu May 23, 2024 10:47 am

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 10:35 am

Picture so far:

- 5 editions for TDF seems possible. User stats continued strong throughout the Giro with good numbers in the parallel progamme. Question is between 18-20-22 and 19-21-23 then. Is it possible to gain even more insight from the 19h teams here? Are there a few more (like Romoc) who would enjoy an 18h TDF (but stayed silent so far)? Then it would become very likely. Afternoon 14h is clear. Morning, please can any teams speak up before the 25th if they would like 10h? Otherwise will change it back to 9 (but if there is anyone for 10, should be 10 this time after 10 has missed out so often).

- No clear majority for delaying the TdS prologue, so Dauphine and TdS will continue to overlap as proposed in the preview PDF. Should be good for one day race participation then. 2 editions each also seems fine as both tours are somewhat specialized mountainous tours. Exact times subject to TDF times. Could argue as TDF preparation they should have the same times, but I think better to mix it around a little bit (so if you don't get your favorite TDF time, at least you get that time for Dauphine/TdS).

- Some small fantasy tour post-TdS and pre-TDF (the end of June gap) comes back into play. Prefer fantasy over real race for various reason, partially described by others. First of all, real race on real date is important to the game, as confirmed in this Dauphine/TdS discussion. Secondly, keep fantasy designers motivated. Thirdly, a very short tour (3 or 4 days max) should be enough. And last but not least, we could use a fantasy tour to potentially test TDF-boni-settings before the TDF (if Alk and I find the time to implement the special TDF 8-5-2 bonus seconds, which is unclear now, but would like to keep the option). So 3 or 4 days fantasy tours can be proposed (unless AAD already has a perfect fit in mind). One day fantasy races will also be needed a lot in June.

For me that is sad, I just ride tours as one day races are not really fun to me and only having 2 tours this month and both over lapping when it is easy to fix it by a prologue...

I would like to have more tours even if they are less relevant or small categories. Of course I can not say much as I do not build races. Just saying what I would like to see.

RACPTeam

Well, I didn't comment on the topic so far. Guess Gip knows my real races on real dates preferences.

Suisse and Dauphine are very similar. So even from the fun point of view, I would prefer riding another kind of tour. My proposal would be a small fantasy tour. Something like viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5193&p=120836#p120836 would fit but I am open for other proposals

13.06 till 16.06 there is Oberösterreich Rundfahrt; UCI 2.2
ST1. Prologue 1km
ST2. Flat 186km
ST3. Hilly 151km
ST4. Mountain(finish) 153km

if we need more small tours

for Le Tour morning edition I would prefer 09.00

I like the idea of real dates for real races, especially the main WT races.
But for minor tours and races, I think it's ok to race them at different dates, so we can ride them instead of not riding them.
So, I am more into adding real races and tours into the calendar instead of fantasy ones, especially at this time of the year when there are plenty of options available !

ps : today we have almost 100 teams racing, all field of // tour and one day race are 6-8 teams; a bit small; but at least no very small field ! quite good numbers I guess !

Final PDF online.

Important stuff:

- Dauphine and TdS remain parallel, as there was no clear majority to delay the TdS prologue. Real race on real date it is then.

- There will be a 4-day Fantasy Stage Race from Tu,18 - Fr, 21 June. Race, Times and Editions to be decided (by AAD).

- Tour de France will have 5 editions, times are 9-14-18-20-22.

Why did TdS chance to 15h?
It was at 14h not 15h.... 15h is to late for me

Bugatti wrote: ↑

Fri May 24, 2024 11:13 am

Why did TdS chance to 15h?
It was at 14h not 15h.... 15h is to late for me

It was at 14h in the preview and up for discussion (see quotes below).

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Mon May 13, 2024 11:34 am

Dauphine || TdS: As usual, Number of Editions to be discussed and Times to be discussed.

In the end, it was a toss-up between changing it around vs. last year (15h Dauphine) and having different times for TdS and TDF.

Gipfelstuermer wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 10:35 am

Exact times subject to TDF times. Could argue as TDF preparation they should have the same times, but I think better to mix it around a little bit (so if you don't get your favorite TDF time, at least you get that time for Dauphine/TdS).

TDF is 14h, so maybe that's good for you then.

Did not read any comment for 15h and nothing vs 14h. so i thought it will be fine at 14h...

bergwerk cycling wrote: ↑

Thu May 16, 2024 6:08 pm

Dauphine in the afternoon would be nice for me 13/14/15 ok

really only 2 editions and than morning and early evening?
no chance for afternoon? 13/14/15 (cant ride suisse)

bergwerk cycling wrote: ↑

Fri May 24, 2024 1:14 pm

really only 2 editions and than morning and early evening?
no chance for afternoon? 13/14/15 (cant ride suisse)

Sorry that I cannot offer every race at every time slot, in this case with Dauphine and TdS in parallel and both very specialized tours for mountain riders.

Last year Dauphine was in the afternoon, this year TdS gets the afternoon spot.

As the number of teams is growing, maybe next year more editions are possible. Everyone can volunteer and help to further grow the number of teams.

Same as 2023 but actually we rode the 2022 version in 2023, so I had to re-design it, grrrr.

Heistseberg remains +3* -1.

Können wir für solche Abstimmungen zukünftig irgendeine Regelung finden? Wann eine Mehrheit eine ausreichende Mehrheit ist? Sonst bleibt es ja mehr oder weniger eine willkürliche Entscheidung

Für die Giro 14 Uhr Zeit gab es eine Mehrheit und dafür, dass die TdS nach der Dauphine startet. Das sind zumindest die Abstimmungen an die ich mich erinnern kann bzw. mich beteiligt habe zuletzt.

Man muss zb. eine 15 Uhr Startzeit ja nicht forcieren, nur weils beim letzten Mal anders war. Vielleicht ist 14 Uhr auch einfach beliebter.

11 teams at 15h Giro. So it's not that bad. No need to ALWAYS follow the majority anyway. Fantasy numbers, but if the majority for a 14h Giro or Tour is always there, let's say always 6-4, that doesn't mean that we always have to accomodate the 6, and never the 4. Move it around like Gipfel is doing is good, only go for always the same time if really each time you propose the other time (morning, 9 and 10) there's always people asking for 9, never a single one supporting 10 over 9. And even there, maybe those that would prefer 10 simply gave up, are part of the silent majority who never ventures into the forum, etc. Still not completely scandalous if then despite general preference for 9, the Vuelta (the least important GT) is then offered at 10 for once... if in the end the numbers are more or less ok... do it.

drei.zehn wrote: ↑

Fri May 24, 2024 5:54 pm

Können wir für solche Abstimmungen zukünftig irgendeine Regelung finden? Wann eine Mehrheit eine ausreichende Mehrheit ist? Sonst bleibt es ja mehr oder weniger eine willkürliche Entscheidung

Für die Giro 14 Uhr Zeit gab es eine Mehrheit und dafür, dass die TdS nach der Dauphine startet. Das sind zumindest die Abstimmungen an die ich mich erinnern kann bzw. mich beteiligt habe zuletzt.

Man muss zb. eine 15 Uhr Startzeit ja nicht forcieren, nur weils beim letzten Mal anders war. Vielleicht ist 14 Uhr auch einfach beliebter.

I understand it can be frustrating if the result of the discussion is not your favored result. So here is the thing: In general, the calendar planning is a discussion, not a vote. And in the end someone has to decide (currently me but I take applications to replace me).

Often on details for the calendar, it is good to ask for opinions. Especially if we discuss exceptions from the rule. So the two cases mentioned:

Afternoon Giro. Normal rule is: Rotate between 14h and 15h if roughly the same number of teams prefer 14h/15h. I think Giro 14h were 3 vs 2 people preferring that over 15h? But the 2 people had a good case because in 2023 it was 14h and so those two had missed out on their preferred time back then. So was not a clear situation for a 14h Giro to me. If it had been 5 vs 2 for example, ok, maybe it's another 15h Giro, but then 2025 new discussion and more likely 14h Giro, etc...

Dauphine/TdS. Normal rule is: Real race on real date. I think there were maybe 6 vs 5 people preferring to delay the TdS prologue? Did not count every single statement (because it's not a vote, it's a discussion, otherwise the forum has a vote function) and some statements are also not 100% clear what people actually want, etc. But it was rough 6 vs 5..... Again not enough to make an exception from the rule.

Ok, you ask what is enough... It won't be a very satisfying answer, but it depends on the situation. That's why I ask for opinions and arguments. But to make an exception from the rule, we can say, it should be more than a simple majority, i.e. clearly more than one vote advantage. If it's 67% (and a good number of teams gave an opinion), then in most cases that should be enough to make an exception from the rule. If it's between 50% and 67%, then it depends on the situation.

Edit: Your vote for 5 éditions TDF was successful by the way and you even get your favorite time 14h, so why only complain about the other things and no word about that?