March 2018

[Robyklebt]

What seems clear is:
PN-TA 4 editions each
Langkawi parallel to Catalunya (blah)
Coppi e Bartali after that, parallel to Dwars (blahblah)

Sent Luques 2 new proposals with times, will put races on as soon as he writes his ruling down here.
If no answer tomorrow morning, well for me, night for you, I will put some stuff on arond 1h30-2h PN/TA, E3+Gent, the important things.

Proposals

1)
PN 11-17-21-24
TA 9-14-19-22

Catalunya: 10-15-18-22
Langkawi parallel 19-23
5 classic times

So afternoon loses one edition, late evening 23-24 2 editions. Which is really quite a lot for the late evening, but probably the least controversial decision, they have only a 2 hour window and are used to getting fucked...

2)
PN 10-15-19-22
TA 14-18-21-23

Catalunya 9-17-20-24
Langkawi 19-23
5 classics

I actually like this one better... cuts one morning, Tirreno, so there would be a huge outcry about the unfairness of it all. Late evening doesn't have PN. And the afternoon gets fucked the most, since it gets no afternoon in the one cat 4 stage race that doesn't overlap with the other one. But being probably the weakest time, seems the fairest decision.
Langkawi times btw are possibly bad, especially if Catalunya is at 24, certainly there are better solutions, probably would go for xx-22 then.

Of course we could still go for 5 Catalunyas too... but then would be clearly proposal 1 for PN-TA. First times to lose an edition should be late evening and afternoon. Weaker than the morning (not by that much, but still)
Catalunya then would be 10-15-18-21-24
Coppi e Bartali 3 editions proposed 11-17-22

Anyway the Donkey masterplan now is:
1) If Luques shows up and issues his wise (?) judgement, I'll put on what he says.
2) If Luques doesn't show up till +/-1h30, I'll read what the common people here have to say and take that into consideration when putting up something.
3) No Luques, no enlightment from the forum, I'll put up proposal 1, since it's less controversial than 2.

So have a go at it and comment. Almost 12 hours left.

[kunske]

Is langkawi off the calendar or still on and not on many times. Otherwise i need to put my form on other goals. This tour is perfect for me.

Hmm i see robbie wants langkawi only in the evening. so no langkawi for me, Is it not possible 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening?

[Kelme-Movistar]

Dear Support,

I only can speak for me.
It would be great to get a chance to have each race one time in the morning.
I would prefer a.m. 09:00 or 10:00 o'clock .

[RS Coesitz]

Why not this way?

Catalunya 11-17-20-24
Langkawi 9-23

[luques]

CN on 15 can be good or in the middle of the week you don't want that?

[IDF]

Why not this way?

Catalunya 11-17-20-24
Langkawi 9-23

So no Langkawi for afternoon? Ok even if fields are quite crap (i mean these kind of false sprinter teams ..) let's a start at 18 at least.
3 editions for langkawi= perfect.

[RS Coesitz]

Why not this way?

Catalunya 11-17-20-24
Langkawi 9-23

So no Langkawi for afternoon? Ok even if fields are quite crap (i mean these kind of false sprinter teams ..) let's a start at 18 at least.
3 editions for langkawi= perfect.

So what about:

Catalunya 11-15-20-24
Langkawi 9-18

Should be something there for everyone, 9 - 11 - 15 - 18 - 20 - 24

[Robyklebt]

OK, Luques spoke, see the PDF, updated.

Langkawi.. IMO can come to a better solution than 19-23, which isn't very good, true.
But don't think the morning is an option, then we would have

Morning: 5 tours, all
Afternoon: 2 tours
early evening: 4 tours
main evening: 4 tours, only missing Langkawi
late evening: 2 tours.

Won't work like that.

23 Langkawi IMO is fix, late evening, only 1 of the others.
Second one? Looks like afternoon the most logic choice. OR the main evening, since that time unlike the morning has the teams to deserve everything, but 21-23 doesn't convince
A third one? Clearly not a fan, but if Luques says yes to a third one...

That said, nice to see participation here, but let's all try to come here earlier next month! The first PDF version was on over a week ago... (goal really is to have it online on the 15th and finalize it on the 22nd or if it takes long latest the 25th)

Anyway, now going to bed, so will put stuff on when I get up in 7 hours...
I regard the PDF posted by Luques as final regarding the PN-TA-Catalunya-Classics times... Langkawi can change, but needs to be built in around the the fix stuff.

[RS Coesitz]

Langkawi.. IMO can come to a better solution than 19-23, which isn't very good, true.
But don't think the morning is an option, then we would have

Why? Here and in the chat were several teams who wanted to ride it in the morning. I don´t see any argument here against it.

Morning: 5 tours, all
Afternoon: 2 tours
early evening: 4 tours
main evening: 4 tours, only missing Langkawi
late evening: 2 tours.

Splitting up the afternoon and the evening in 4 parts makes it looking like there are less tours at this time. But this is not like it is. You could also take the 11h-tours then and call it noon then if you take 17h for early evening. Then there are only 3 tours in the morning including Langkawi

I think it should be more important which other races will be made on this time. And if I see Catalunya 10-15-18-22, I already see two times the afternoon/early evening. In my eyes: take an early and a late edition of Langkawi, so all time may be covered.

[IDF]

3 times for Lankgawi and everybody will be happy...

[kunske]

Next Month we Will be earlier with complqining about this. But i hope there Will be a morning edition or 3 times for tour of langkawi. Coesitz and me trekken are in for the morning. Fantasticos Will ride late in the evening. This is surtain. I hope you Will make the best dicissoin

[Pokemon Club]

Or no Langkawi at all. No reason that One Day Race field suffer of few participation because of Langkawi. It isn't else if there is only fantasy races. Denain + De Panne + GP E3 + Loire Atlantique + Cholet + Wevelgem >>>>>> Langkawi and at the end will suffer way more than that useless money tour. 3-4 days can finish with a MS, some sprint stage at Catalunya too, sprinters have enough to be happy already. You just add a problem where there is no problem first for what ? Make happy all players. That is impossible for the moment.

[RS Coesitz]

No Cataluya is ok for me too. But that´s no reason not to let others ride it...

[Coroncina2]

Btw, Langkawi, you have 10 stages but it should be 8? And the stage names and lengths seem different too at times. Stage 2-4 seem correct, the rest not?
18/3Stage 1 - Kangar › Kulim (147.9k)
19/3Stage 2 - Gerik › Kota Bharu (208.3k)
20/3Stage 3 - Kota Bharu › Kuala Terengganus (166k)
21/3Stage 4 - Dungun › Pekan (177.6k)
22/3Stage 5 - Bentong › Cameron Highlands (169.4k)
23/3Stage 6 - Tapah › Tanjung Malim (108.5k)
24/3Stage 7 - Nilai › Muar (222.4k)
25/3Stage 8 - Rembau › Kuala Lumpur (141.1k)

I don't know where you win your information. I find mine here where there was a video with 10 stages.
http://www.ltdl.my/index.php?p=news&c=news001
Here other info in facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ltdlofficial/p ... 0395422429
Btw stage some info talk about 10 stage but first the 18/03 and last the 25/03 without half stages
Seem organization doesn't have clear idea too.
I already done 10 stages. Fell free to put this tour in calendar or not. I did it just for fun and to help game to have races done as soon as possible.

[RS Coesitz]

News about the 8 stages only: http://www.ltdl.my/index.php?p=news&c=news003

News about how the stages will be:

https://www.facebook.com/ltdlofficial/p ... 0395422429

https://www.facebook.com/ltdlofficial/p ... =3&theater

[Pokemon Club]

No Cataluya is ok for me too. But that´s no reason not to let others ride it...

Others already have an alternative program. To offer Langkawi is a luxury we don't have this year with this level of active players.

[Coroncina2]

News about the 8 stages only: http://www.ltdl.my/index.php?p=news&c=news003

News about how the stages will be:

https://www.facebook.com/ltdlofficial/p ... 0395422429

https://www.facebook.com/ltdlofficial/p ... =3&theater

thanks

[Robyklebt]

@Paris-Nice designer

I know well the end of the first stage, la côte du château de Meudon. The final part is about 800m, 5-6%, with irregular pavé (with 3 small "borders" to "jump"), I would say something between ** and ***.
There is a strava segment named "the vibrator", and it wears well it's name (mostly on downhill way!)

First useful post in the forum in your career. Too bad it will most likely be the last one, knowing you. Add stupid smileys yourself.
Thanks, looking at it on google earth seemed pretty good city pavé, so *, is enough.

[Robyklebt]

PN, TA, Harelbeke, Gent Wevelgem on + 1 day races till the 5th on.

There is a problem with Dwars door Vlaanderen, Pokemon somehow didn't save it properly. So not online yet.

Milano Sanremo right now is more of a place holder, since the profile doesn't work. Just look at the numbers at the right, will be this. Super special editor needed it seems, race too long. Good file will be put on whenever I get that super special mega performant editorlink. from Luques.


Ah, nobody seems to have noticed, Luques proposed CN on the 15th. Anybody pro? Anybody opposed?
Donkey pro, 2 days from MSR, so people who kill their team won't be happy 2 days later... but then just ride while keeping MSR in mind.

[Robyklebt]

Langkawi
First, this post caught my eye.

Langkawi.. IMO can come to a better solution than 19-23, which isn't very good, true.
But don't think the morning is an option, then we would have

Why? Here and in the chat were several teams who wanted to ride it in the morning. I don´t see any argument here against it.

Why? See below. And if you don't see the argument doesn't mean it isn't there.

Morning: 5 tours, all
Afternoon: 2 tours
early evening: 4 tours
main evening: 4 tours, only missing Langkawi
late evening: 2 tours.

Splitting up the afternoon and the evening in 4 parts makes it looking like there are less tours at this time. But this is not like it is. You could also take the 11h-tours then and call it noon then if you take 17h for early evening. Then there are only 3 tours in the morning including Langkawi

Are you serious with this argument? Do you find it convincing even yourself?? Because can't imagine that being the case honestly.
Not offering Langkawi in the morning would make it look like there is no Langkawi in the morning. But it is not like it is.
Come on argue honestly not with stuff like this.

I think it should be more important which other races will be made on this time. And if I see Catalunya 10-15-18-22, I already see two times the afternoon/early evening. In my eyes: take an early and a late edition of Langkawi, so all time may be covered.

Good first sentence, agree. Then you went off into "not morning is all the same".

Look at the numbers.
Excluding the late evening the afternoon is weakest. Then the morning. Why should everything be offered in the morning? Do you have the numbers that show that every morning tour gets decent numbers?
Look at Abu Dhabi. Morning even weakest with only 6 teams. And Abu Dhabi is the most similar to Langkawi we had lately. Lots of Sprint, classic parallel.
'The rest of the day' had 33 teams. Or if we want to break it down into smaller segments, even if you seem to regard that as unnecessary, 14h=7 (1 gave up) 17=8, 20+23 both 9.
Yes normally the morning is stronger than the afternoon, not this time, but generally a bit. So 2 stage races offered in a month for 14-16 vs 5 for 9-11? Not gonna happen, even if you claim that afternoon-early evening is basically the same...
Have a look at participation at tours this month. Who when. When I look at the morning+early evening groups, I'd say that the overlap with the afternoon (which is when I usually ride, so know the teams) is bigger for the morning than for the early evening. No guarantee, just an impression when clicking through.

Try again.
I even help you.
Why not propose cutting the Coppi&Bartali morning?
I'd still not be convinced, Classics+Catalunya+Langkawi just seems too much.

Right now you have 3 teams who want it in the morning. Kelme, you, Trekken. Bring 2 more that say the plan to ride it.
Otherwise for the moment I'd go for something else. 12-23? How would 12 be?
And Coppi btw might change anyway...

[Pokemon Club]

PN, TA, Harelbeke, Gent Wevelgem on + 1 day races till the 5th on.

There is a problem with Dwars door Vlaanderen, Pokemon somehow didn't save it properly. So not online yet.

funny don't why that doesn't work. Seems OK now

[Pokemon Club]

And of course no need CN for the moment, just a waste. Prefer ride a fantasy race than CN. More fun, more money, less bug, less useless work for luques

[kunske]

Langkawi
First, this post caught my eye.

Langkawi.. IMO can come to a better solution than 19-23, which isn't very good, true.
But don't think the morning is an option, then we would have

Why? Here and in the chat were several teams who wanted to ride it in the morning. I don´t see any argument here against it.

Why? See below. And if you don't see the argument doesn't mean it isn't there.

Morning: 5 tours, all
Afternoon: 2 tours
early evening: 4 tours
main evening: 4 tours, only missing Langkawi
late evening: 2 tours.

Splitting up the afternoon and the evening in 4 parts makes it looking like there are less tours at this time. But this is not like it is. You could also take the 11h-tours then and call it noon then if you take 17h for early evening. Then there are only 3 tours in the morning including Langkawi

Are you serious with this argument? Do you find it convincing even yourself?? Because can't imagine that being the case honestly.
Not offering Langkawi in the morning would make it look like there is no Langkawi in the morning. But it is not like it is.
Come on argue honestly not with stuff like this.

I think it should be more important which other races will be made on this time. And if I see Catalunya 10-15-18-22, I already see two times the afternoon/early evening. In my eyes: take an early and a late edition of Langkawi, so all time may be covered.

Good first sentence, agree. Then you went off into "not morning is all the same".

Look at the numbers.
Excluding the late evening the afternoon is weakest. Then the morning. Why should everything be offered in the morning? Do you have the numbers that show that every morning tour gets decent numbers?
Look at Abu Dhabi. Morning even weakest with only 6 teams. And Abu Dhabi is the most similar to Langkawi we had lately. Lots of Sprint, classic parallel.
'The rest of the day' had 33 teams. Or if we want to break it down into smaller segments, even if you seem to regard that as unnecessary, 14h=7 (1 gave up) 17=8, 20+23 both 9.
Yes normally the morning is stronger than the afternoon, not this time, but generally a bit. So 2 stage races offered in a month for 14-16 vs 5 for 9-11? Not gonna happen, even if you claim that afternoon-early evening is basically the same...
Have a look at participation at tours this month. Who when. When I look at the morning+early evening groups, I'd say that the overlap with the afternoon (which is when I usually ride, so know the teams) is bigger for the morning than for the early evening. No guarantee, just an impression when clicking through.

Try again.
I even help you.
Why not propose cutting the Coppi&Bartali morning?
I'd still not be convinced, Classics+Catalunya+Langkawi just seems too much.

Right now you have 3 teams who want it in the morning. Kelme, you, Trekken. Bring 2 more that say the plan to ride it.
Otherwise for the moment I'd go for something else. 12-23? How would 12 be?
And Coppi btw might change anyway...

You have dreizehn that normal will ride with us in the morning. But maybe he's gonna ride a other tour. Rfm want to ride langkawi but don't know if he has time in the morning. I will see if i can locate other teams that will ride it in the morning.

[RS Coesitz]

Langkawi
First, this post caught my eye.

Langkawi.. IMO can come to a better solution than 19-23, which isn't very good, true.
But don't think the morning is an option, then we would have

Why? Here and in the chat were several teams who wanted to ride it in the morning. I don´t see any argument here against it.

Why? See below. And if you don't see the argument doesn't mean it isn't there.

Arguments are something I could work with and I think it´s just fair to talk about it. Your post just seemed to me like: "No - and I won´t tell you why." Thanks for explaining. I´d like to have the talk here a bit less aggressive. I know there are some people who are talking with each other for a long time and don´t really like each other, but I don´t want to act like this and don´t want to be part of some general rivalry .

Morning: 5 tours, all
Afternoon: 2 tours
early evening: 4 tours
main evening: 4 tours, only missing Langkawi
late evening: 2 tours.

Splitting up the afternoon and the evening in 4 parts makes it looking like there are less tours at this time. But this is not like it is. You could also take the 11h-tours then and call it noon then if you take 17h for early evening. Then there are only 3 tours in the morning including Langkawi

Are you serious with this argument? Do you find it convincing even yourself?? Because can't imagine that being the case honestly.
Not offering Langkawi in the morning would make it look like there is no Langkawi in the morning. But it is not like it is.
Come on argue honestly not with stuff like this.

Yes, I really am. Cutting the days in parts is ok, but for me it seems arbitrarily and somehow it always is. My impression was, that splitting it that way is only good for the argument, if I split the day another way, like I did, it doesn´t. For me, the 11h-tours are no morning tours, because I can normally ride only in the morning and not at noon. Races from 11-13h are often not possible for me, so I may have an other understanding what morning means. But we can get back to this point on your next one, I think this is the most important .

I think it should be more important which other races will be made on this time. And if I see Catalunya 10-15-18-22, I already see two times the afternoon/early evening. In my eyes: take an early and a late edition of Langkawi, so all time may be covered.

Good first sentence, agree. Then you went off into "not morning is all the same".

Look at the numbers.
Excluding the late evening the afternoon is weakest. Then the morning. Why should everything be offered in the morning? Do you have the numbers that show that every morning tour gets decent numbers?
Look at Abu Dhabi. Morning even weakest with only 6 teams. And Abu Dhabi is the most similar to Langkawi we had lately. Lots of Sprint, classic parallel.
'The rest of the day' had 33 teams. Or if we want to break it down into smaller segments, even if you seem to regard that as unnecessary, 14h=7 (1 gave up) 17=8, 20+23 both 9.
Yes normally the morning is stronger than the afternoon, not this time, but generally a bit. So 2 stage races offered in a month for 14-16 vs 5 for 9-11? Not gonna happen, even if you claim that afternoon-early evening is basically the same...
Have a look at participation at tours this month. Who when. When I look at the morning+early evening groups, I'd say that the overlap with the afternoon (which is when I usually ride, so know the teams) is bigger for the morning than for the early evening. No guarantee, just an impression when clicking through.

Try again.
I even help you.
Why not propose cutting the Coppi&Bartali morning?
I'd still not be convinced, Classics+Catalunya+Langkawi just seems too much.

Right now you have 3 teams who want it in the morning. Kelme, you, Trekken. Bring 2 more that say the plan to ride it.
Otherwise for the moment I'd go for something else. 12-23? How would 12 be?
And Coppi btw might change anyway...
[/quote]

I couldn´t ride Dubai because of a training camp, but for example Oman was quite compareable and had 9 teams. But that was what I did not understand: afternoon is weak, let´s set the Langkawi there too. Your argument with the overlapping teams is a good one. I don´t know the Coppi&Bartali profile, for me this tour wasn´t interesting so far. 12h would be ok in the week but not on the weekend for, I guess I could arrange it to find a sitter then. But it always cuts the whole day for me. But definetly better than somewhen in the afternoon or evening.

[Pokemon Club]

And of course no need CN for the moment, just a waste. Prefer ride a fantasy race than CN. More fun, more money, less bug, less useless work for luques