October 2011

[olmania]

Does anyone criticized Hainan Tour ?
I just had a quick look to stage 2, it's ugly !
I've no time to check everything, but all these 10%+/-10%+ ... seems to be unreal !
When you draw in Asia, the roads in valleys have a really bad modelisation. When I draw in these areas, I'm forced to use the satellite view to follow the road, exactly, because the roadmap lines are not good enough. Roby can maybe say a little bit more about this.
Or maybe I'm wrong and this tour is crazy hell !

[Robyklebt]

That's an easy one:

For "security reasons", kind of outdated of course, but still there, by now probably more "money" or "politics" maps in China are all off by... don't remember.. 400 meters or something? So using t4b with the Google maps builder you will get a worthless route going over mountains etc etc while the real road probably is gently rolling over hills. OSM builder might actually be correct, not sure. But basically foreign companies are not allowed to show the maps in the correct location... chinese paranoia and bla bla. Mhh, a while ago China launched its own online map service, all in chinese, but there the data is supposed to be correct.

Anyway, a decent designer would realize something is strange while designing, Aux of course not. Result: A worthless design that shouldn't even be ridden because very likely it's so far off that it has nothing to do with reality anymore.

Aux of course will just tell you that a) all numbers are absolutely correct in Hainan b) it's racist to claim anything else c) it's a personal problem.

For me it's pointless to have Hainan in this form in the calendar, but well...

[MiSa]

Sunday 16.10.11
Can someone give me the difference between Chrono des Nations and Chrono des Herbiers?
Look identical to me from. And is there only a TT-Race at Sunday?

Regards MiSa

[lesossies]

Yes, only 2 chronos on sunday.
I was not 100% sure when I took this decision, but I wont change it now anymore.
Sorry, it is for me personly and my team not the best solution but I must live with it too.

[NoPikouze]

2 ?

It's one and the same race, why 2 ?

[olmania]

That's an easy one:

For "security reasons", kind of outdated of course, but still there, by now probably more "money" or "politics" maps in China are all off by... don't remember.. 400 meters or something? So using t4b with the Google maps builder you will get a worthless route going over mountains etc etc while the real road probably is gently rolling over hills. OSM builder might actually be correct, not sure. But basically foreign companies are not allowed to show the maps in the correct location... chinese paranoia and bla bla. Mhh, a while ago China launched its own online map service, all in chinese, but there the data is supposed to be correct.

Anyway, a decent designer would realize something is strange while designing, Aux of course not. Result: A worthless design that shouldn't even be ridden because very likely it's so far off that it has nothing to do with reality anymore.

Aux of course will just tell you that a) all numbers are absolutely correct in Hainan b) it's racist to claim anything else c) it's a personal problem.

For me it's pointless to have Hainan in this form in the calendar, but well...

Ok, thanks for the answer.
Hainan is minor race, so it's not a big deal.
Anyway, it's sad to have a RSF race totally different than the real race, because the profiles are not well drawn. But it's drawn, thanks to aux for that (he spent a lot of time on it), that's already a good point. Next time, he should add an other good point : good profiles.

[lesossies]

2 ?

It's one and the same race, why 2 ?

one for div 1-5 and one for div 5-6.
because the div6 teams often buy new special teams for TT .

[NoPikouze]

Ok I see.

But do we really have to kill SIX riders for this Argh...

[Robyklebt]

Slight criticism:

Pavétour starts monday, Lombardia saturday. Now the pavétour obviously is fairly important for many RSF users too, and we all know that at pavé starting with 1000 energy is absolutely crucial. 35reg guys recover 700 til then. IMO that influenced yesterdays monument a lot. Lots of people saving energy with certain riders, and it made for a fairly boring Lombardia in the 2 editions I followed a bit (15+18).

Just to keep it in mind for next year. Of course Lombardia will be in September then, but from the last important race to the pavé tour, would be nice to have a longer break. So to not "block" the last important race.

Same for Jura actually, not directly after the NM. Jura riders will simply not be able to ride the NM as they normally would do without risking to kill their chances for Jura.

Hainan: Right now it's a fantasy race, nothing else. Sure it will be kind of fun to ride +10-10+10-15+8 or whatever fantastical roads we take. But we have so many better designed fantasy tours around, why not use some of them? Tour of NZ by NoPik, Marokko by Allagen looks nice too, Tokyo by forgot whom already, etc etc. Ok, now Hainan is in, leave it, but in principle it's not more than fantasy. In a way more real than fantasy tours, yes, has a real name and real start-arrival points, but in a way less real than many fantasy tours, it doesn't follow roads. Again, don't kick it out, but don't forgot good already designed fantasy tours like the ones mentioned.

[NoPikouze]

Pavétour starts monday, Lombardia saturday. Now the pavétour obviously is fairly important for many RSF users too, and we all know that at pavé starting with 1000 energy is absolutely crucial. 35reg guys recover 700 til then. IMO that influenced yesterdays monument a lot.

Omg I notice the pavétour only now... I wonder if any of my riders will be fit tomorrow after 49km of ITT... If not, this completely sucks. Nobody needed 6 riders on this TT.

[lesossies]

I see the problems but difficult to solve these.
NM at 30.10 had been better. I know.

[olmania]

Pavétour starts monday, Lombardia saturday. Now the pavétour obviously is fairly important for many RSF users too, and we all know that at pavé starting with 1000 energy is absolutely crucial. 35reg guys recover 700 til then.

So what ?
Because it's monument, they should burn all their riders ? Is it an important part of RSF to calculate energies and reg for the next days ? I don't see the problem.
And you're not forced to have crap 35reg ! Buy 50reg if you're not happy.
I think it was interesting to have Italian classic + ITT + 1st stage of Pavé in a row. It forced teams to make choices, different tactics and play with their brain sometimes when the skills were not enough. Thanks leso for these 3 interestings days in the calendar for the teams who wanted to play it well for these 3 races !

[Robyklebt]

No, there was less brainwork demanded. Outsiders simply don't attack, save energy, favorites a much easier job than usual IMO. There really wasn't much brainwork needed at all.

[Robyklebt]

Don't like the NM time creating robot much

9: 6 races
10 8 races
11 7 races
12 7 races
13 7 races
14 5 races
15 5 races
16 5 races
17 5 races
18 6 races
19 6 races
20 6 races
21 7 races

Why does the Robot hate the afternoon?

[olmania]

Don't like the NM time creating robot much

9: 6 races
10 8 races
11 7 races
12 7 races
13 7 races
14 5 races
15 5 races
16 5 races
17 5 races
18 6 races
19 6 races
20 6 races
21 7 races

Why does the Robot hate the afternoon?

I agree, CN are Always Sunday; so, Make it start at 11am, program more races in the afternoon, and it should be possible to finish at 10pm (races are short, everything will end before 11.30pm).

[lesossies]

I agree, CN are Always Sunday; so, Make it start at 11am, program more races in the afternoon, and it should be possible to finish at 10pm (races are short, everything will end before 11.30pm).

You are right, I noticed it yesterday too.
I´ll change it for next time.

[Robyklebt]

Ah, I don't think starting at 11 is a good idea though....

[flockmastoR]

I agree, CN are Always Sunday; so, Make it start at 11am, program more races in the afternoon, and it should be possible to finish at 10pm (races are short, everything will end before 11.30pm).

You are right, I noticed it yesterday too.
I´ll change it for next time.

I dont see a reason why we should cut the times? Because it is a sunday? Sundays are the days i usually cannot race between 11 and 19 o clock. This time only one NC with riders of my time was run at a time where i could possibly be there and it was to late to do anything there too. Do you want to disadvantage some teams just because it is sunday? And i just dont mention the managers that dont live in central europe and may have better time at 9 or 23 o clock or so on. As the game expanding we should overthink that a bit

[NoPikouze]

Why care about ol's lazyness... 9 or 10 am is fine. By the way, I never saw that much people around during weekend afternoons.

[Robyklebt]

Because you're blind:

09.10.2011:

morning 9-10-10 34
afternoon 14-15-15: 54
early evening: 18-18-19 46
evening 21-21-22 41

So let's stop the btw, ... weekend afternoons without numbers.

And while the afternoon certainly is not regularly the strongest time on sundays, there still is no reason to give it LESS races during the NC as it has been the case this time. A more even distribution, from 9-22, all is ok.
Saturdays actually the afternoon has been very strong for a long time.

[NoPikouze]

Japan Cup -saturday)
9h - 17
12h - 29
15h - 34
18h - 32
20h - 25
22h - 25
Clearly concentrated in the afternoon, true.

Lombardia (saturday)
10h - 17
15h - 13
18h - 15
21h - 15
No particular concentration

Emilia (saturday)
9h - 17
12h - 24
16h - 26
19h - 22
21h - 21
23h - 20
Ok, a bit less at 9 than on other times.

Beghelli + Tours (sunday, without the youth race)
9+10h: 24
14+15h - 38
19+18h - 31
22+21h - 31
Also a bit less in the morning, agreed.

(no point in watching at the d5-6 race or the TT I guess, those races are irrelevant)

Nevertheless, that's also because it's 9am. 10 am is a much more convenient time, imo. Quite a big difference for a sunday. But the complete anti-morning thing because it's sunday, that's also bullshit. Even worse than what i pretended in my latest post.

And while the afternoon certainly is not regularly the strongest time on sundays, there still is no reason to give it LESS races during the NC as it has been the case this time. A more even distribution, from 9-22, all is ok.

Did I tell anyone to give afternoon LESS times, you moron? Why do you put thhings in my mouth I didnt even think of ?
I admit i was wrong when I thought it was a more even repartition of players during the whole day. But I dont see any reason to give the afternoon MORE races, which was the topic here. Neither to cut the morning.

[Robyklebt]

Learn to read. Where did I say you want to give less times for the afternoon? I said there is no reason to give it less times as has been the case this time.

Second time you try to be cute btw, second time you fail. And put words in my mouth! Attention moron!

My original point stands:

Why does the robot hate the afternoon? Give the afternoon the same amount of NC as the other times. No reason to give it less (regardless of what NoPik might think about that )
Morning start at 9 seems ok to me actually.
Last race at 22 ok too, maybe better not a long one.

If you want I can develop a whole complicated system!

I feel it, you want it, ok, here it is:
80 countries, 14 start times. 6,4 races per time.

Then, top 6, more important races, often longer I think, not really sure. Start them every 2 hours: 10-12-14-16-18-20 or 11-13-15-17-19-21, second option probably the better one. Purely by chance which country gets which.
84/14=6 an extra 6 races for all the times.
How, like you did or maybe still do. The RSF country ranking, the bottom 14 get spread out over the 14 times, then next 14 too, etc etc.

No "extra sausage" for special countries. For the moment. Actually maybe for Portugal, is one hour "late", so maybe put in a 9h protection, earliest start for them is 10, 9h in Portugal. In the future similar protection for other countries with a decent number of players, like if Australia/NZ/USA/UK/Canada/Cuba/Tuvalu whatever gets lots of players, put in a restriction that the NC will be ridden at a "good time" for them. Meaning during the day, not in the middle of the night. Later then obviously we'll have to expand the playing times anyway, when the US/Australia etc guys are really all here..... but for the moment, my proposal is obviously perfect.

[olmania]

Leso if you see it now, change the mintack to km78 for tomorrow's race !
Thanks