November 2010

[Elaska]

Irish tour and ITT Frankfurt will be in the calendar or not ?

[Luna]

Why can't the Coppa Mosella not be named Coppa Mosella as it has been originally ?

Last year it was named correctly



Normandie: either stage 3 is missing or they are wrongly numbered.

[lesossies]

Irish tour and ITT Frankfurt will be in the calendar or not ?

Do you mean the Gaelic Tour ?
Could me a possibility too.

I don´t have the ITT Frankfurt.

Normandie stage 3 corrected!
Coppa Mosella now OK .

[Robyklebt]

Anti-Normandie!!!!!!!!!!

It's a completely unimportant real race that in reality is raced in.. march? Don't remember. But either then program it in march as D5-6 race, or don't program it at all. Anything but Normandie!!!!

[Elaska]

Irish tour and ITT Frankfurt will be in the calendar or not ?

Do you mean the Gaelic Tour ?
Could me a possibility too.

I don´t have the ITT Frankfurt.

Normandie stage 3 corrected!
Coppa Mosella now OK .

Are not the same like the last year ?

[skull]

are you discussing the tour parallel to the campeonato
or the tour after the campeonato ?

[lesossies]

are you discussing the tour parallel to the campeonato
or the tour after the campeonato ?

I mean the tour parallel to Anden.

I like the Normandie (" ........... C´est le pays qui m´a donné le jour ..........lalalalalala ")

If we decide to start the Normandie par. to anden, I cannot ride it after Anden or should we ride Normandie twice, nice idea.

Alternative: 5 days CENTOANNI during Anden and Indonesia after ...

[Lizard]

Is Trans-Sahara weather "tropic" correct? I thought that's a desert.

EDITH: real race in the wrong month, I don't know. Rather Centoanni. Everyone liked it, everyone welcomes this tour. It deserves to be ridden.

[Robyklebt]

DOWN WITH NORMANDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bah.

You'll get a nice long Robypost here soon anyway.

[NoPikouze]

Just one thing about southland starting one day earlier... Most teams without licence won't be able to ride it, since they don't have 6(?) racepoints left on the 31st of a month!

[olmania]

Rather Centoanni. Everyone liked it, everyone welcomes this tour. It deserves to be ridden.

Not me, climbing the Alps or others mountains in Europe during the Winter ...
I prefer a fantasy tour in the South

[Robyklebt]

November:

First: Okinawa cat 1. It's nowhere close to Montréal and Québec, cat 2 this year, new PT races. Okinawa ? Old c4a calender 07: 1.E. Lowest of the low, clearly cat 1. No reason to upgrade it. This year: Seems UCI 2.2. although can't really figure out what the first stage is supposed to be... last year a prologue, this year a city circuit or is that one a different race? No clue. As a one day race for us ok. But cat 2 not ok. Not at all. Makes no sense to continue downgrading certain races, Scheldeprijs for example and upgrade other ones. What's the point of the categories then? Just keep 2 in that case... I mean, IF we didn't have all those senseless downgrades during the whole year we could even talk about giving Okinawa an (undeserved) upgrade, but like this... no thanks.

So Okinawa cat 1.
Add Bolkow-Bolkow as cat 2 fantasy classic on the 15th or so, or 16th exact date not so important, but add it.

Then: Preview says:

-5 southland Nothing else. Add a fantasy tour from the 4th to the 7th/8th/9th/10th or something. Use as many fantasy tours as possible, why leave that hole? It overlaps with both southland and Andes, but what's the problem? It's good if it overlaps.
6-21 Andes. Overlapping 2 tours. 12-14th Sahara seems fix, then 15-18/19 Again, fill the early hole with an overlapping tour in early november. Then.. Why not make the Bolivia fanatics happy after all. Give them their Bolivia, 2 times, ORIGINAL date, finished. 7-14th. So overlapping with Andes, Sahara and if you fill the hole with the holefiller, but not with Southland, which if I remember correctly has a similar clientele.. sprinters. (ok with climbers usually in southland (shouldn't have been moved forward of course, but too late for that) But as I said, make it only 2 times, that's more than enough. And, if we ride unimportant tours, I rather have it when it's in reality than x months later. Like Normandy... grr.

So "my" calendar would look like

Southland as it is
4-9 Fantasy tour A, 3? times
7-14 Bolivia 2 times
12-14 Sahara 4 times
15-18/19 Fantasy B 5 times.
23-26 Fantasy C

I guess kicking Normandy is not an option somehow... couldn't your parents be somewhere else at the time? Pah, 4 days:
a) 1-4 November. then make fantasy tour A from 5-10 or so..
b) Make it fantasy tour a (and kick my great plan to use many fantasy tours in the garbage bin)
c) Add it parallel to the end of Andes and beginning of Fantasy C, something like 20-23 or overlapping Fantasy C and Andes, 19-22.

I would go with a.

Times: Tours. I see twice 5 evenings, 5 early evenings, 4 late evenings, 4 mornings, 3 afternoons and 2 noons. Thanks for keeping the afternoon in front of noon.. barely. Another year and maybe we can just make 14-16 a RSF free time?

[Luna]

I also don't fancy it much to see a real race ridden on a totally wrong date.


@NoPik: As far as I know the program takes the change of months into account and will charge the race points of the following month for the remainder of the tour. But that better has to be confirmed by someone who's sure about it.

EDIT

@Roby: Haven't we come to a kind of agreement in one of the last years about some cat 1 races being ridden as cat 2 during the off-season, since there are so few high categorized races in Nov/Dec (and in compensation for the disadvantage of those who prefer to concentrate on (real) one day races instead of (fantasy) stage races)?

[NoPikouze]

You need 9 points available now to participate in southland
Not that I care, fuck those who don't pay for the game

Plus, I'm quite afraid you are right but in the wrong sense. Perhaps it will even cost an extra 8 points in the next month. I'm not sure, but that would be funny

[Robyklebt]

Edited the post above in case somebody read it.. new stuff..

Other thing.

Was sure it would happen, after seeing the length thread, it already has. Much faster than I thought.

1: Cancun 110 Inverno 155
2: Sichuan 200
3 Klingenthal 194 + ITT doesn't matter
4 Lafontaine 134
5 Orange 208
6 Leslie King 118 STratford Dargo 129

Ok, 2 out of 6 days under 150. Remember a time (long time ago, old system) when Leso said, ah, some short races now, we'll have longer ones when it gets cold.. so can only imagine how it will look when it gets warm again. The same thing that happened before 08, shorter, shorter, shorter. Forget it, give us our daily dose of real racing. I don't really care that Aux feels that he has to design a race each time some amateurs/cyclotourist ride somewhere, but I see no reason to actually put the stuff in the calendar. Riding together with the public in Cancun? It's not even a race from what I understood. A local cycling club has a race going up a mountain in Australia? Please, get that shit out of the calendar. Or at least put some real races in the same day so that those who aren't completely gaga yet don't have to ride out Aux's realism crusade that now includes local club races. Badly designed too btw. if realism at least design it properly...

You want an occasional shorter race? Ok, no problem, no need to have a longer parallel. 1 a month, 2 a month, 3, ok, why not. but 2 in 6 days? 33% of races now? Do we get all the local club races now?

Give me my normal races and not some amateur club races. My riders are Pros.

[Robyklebt]

EDIT

@Roby: Haven't we come to a kind of agreement in one of the last years about some cat 1 races being ridden as cat 2 during the off-season, since there are so few high categorized races in Nov/Dec (and in compensation for the disadvantage of those who prefer to concentrate on (real) one day races instead of (fantasy) stage races)?

I don't really know.

I know that Schelde was cat 3, I know that Veneto was cat 3 (which is not necesarily wrong ) I know that Henniger Turm was cat 3 (defendable too). All were 4 a year ago. I know taht the new PT races started at 2 (I would have gone 3 but 2 is acceptable, as long as they climb to 3 next year, maybe more later)

So whatever agreement that there might be, or toleration of some + in this season IMO is nullified by those downgrades, we still need to keep some sort of proportion/balance between the real value of races and RSF values. Every year they get more muddled. And agree that Okinawa is not the biggest problem, it's stuff like Tro Bonbon cat 3 like Schelde, Rond om Nokere like Henniger Turm that are the real problem. in fact Okinawa cat 2 because it's still a race, and it's in the dead season would be ok. But it's not only done in the dead season.

Then the Japan Cup is 1.HC. Asian developpement, it's not really an important race of course, but ok. For us, cat 2. Make it cat 3 would still be ok, limite, but why not. But it's cat 2. So giving Okinawa the same status? No.

In the end I'm fairly sure it will stay at cat 2, which isn't the end of the world (that Tro Bonbon at 3 is) but at least I make it known that I still plan to complain about the categories. More in 11 than I did in 10.

Southland at 2 though IMO is a real mistake. Worse than Okinawa. Not even UCI classified anymore, what is it doing at 2?

[Bear]

I totally agree with Roby. I don't like these unimportant races, better to ride a traditional fantasy race (Kat1) instead of riding these "real" races nobody cares about. Make these races Kat 2 is stupid, these are not professional races, so why Kat 2. Don't get that.

[iBanesto]

If you want to do Centoanni without all the big mountain stages, why do you also leave out this one:



Then you have two interesting stages, Saronni & Gimondi, the Moser-Prologue and a couple of sprints namely Cipo, Binda,...
With a semi-stage at the beginning you could still have three sprints in five days.

And in January you could do Coppi, Merckx, Gaul, Bartali in a four day tour!

[Pirkio]

Thank you for the tours leso :3

[Robyklebt]

That's it? You had me scratching my head for 58 minutes nonstop now. And as soon as I've finished writing I'll restart. Why this??

Line A, climbers paradise

1-5 Southland GC chances
6-21 Anden

That was a given (ok not Soutlhland too automatically but ok)

The now parallel we hav

Line B Sprinters heaven

1-5 southland: stages, stages, stages
7-14 Bolivia: stages, stages stages
15-18: Normandie: stages stages stages, maybe even GC

The rest gets: classics cookie:

12-14: Sahara.

Well, it's like fighting fire with oil... with the Andes the month will always be climbers heavy, no meaning for sprinters to go there really, a GT that they can't ride basically. Andes is for climbers, of course classic riders have their place, but it's still clearly for climbers. Not the others. But by reacting and giving the others their own specialist tours, basically you give the sprinter their own 12 day tour divided into 2 tours, the classic riders their own 3 day tour, you're not really balancing things, you just make it worse, by having 4 unbalanced specialist tours instead of only one.

Why not something like last year? NOrge, Ireland, sprinting heave, both, BUT not pure specialist tours like Bolivia/Normandy/Sahara are.

I hope you add some more things, and/or reshuffle something

Normandy where it is just makes no sense, as soon as one sprint tour is over, the second one starts.

1. Put Normandie in the spot Kerala is now. Makes much more sense.
2 Put Kerala in the early "hole" somewhere. since Southland starts today probably best after southland finishes. 6-10 or 7-11th. Even though it's maybe a bit too hard as parallel for the Andes, not enough sprint, but then the sprinters got Bolivia at that time anyway. So would fit. Mmh, Crimée would have been perfect, why didn't you wait a bit longer.. grrr!
3. Look for another tour to put where Normandie is now. One that, like the parallel tours of 09, is good for sprinters, but not a pure sprinters tour. You must have a 4-5 day tour somewhere that has 2-3 sprints, 1-2 middle mountains, maybe 1 HC or one TT/TTT stage. Because that's the tours that are needed. That's balanced tours, that in the end make a balanced calendar. Sprints there, middle mountain there, but not so specialized that it's really only for one or the other.

For example
-Indonesia, 4 days, 5 stages, 2 sprints, 1 middle mountain, 1 HC 1 TTT. fits nicely.
- Centoanni parts, btw iBan told me I should verprügeln you if you make it without Saronni. So a 4-6 day (more IMO then get's long again, but..) Centoanni selection, sprint heavy, but not too heavy, some other things in too.
- Canarias: 2 flat, 1 TTT, 1 middle mountain, 1 HC. Ok, by Bear, who is in the december contest, maybe racing it now would hurt is chance there, just had a Beartour, not another one please. Ok
- Pirkios Puglia: Ok, it's unfortunately partly not on roads just fantasy geography. And he needs to correct some namethings, add the stage nr, names etc. But while I don't like the part where there are no roads, and hope he will do his next races all on real roads, parts are on roads and the whole thing is good. It's his first tour. We rode Allagens 1 day brainfartgeography bullshit, we rode worse tours as well, anything designed by CCS for example. It's 5 days 6 stages, 3 sprints, 1 downhiller thing, 1 hard ITT, one hard mountaines stage, not sure how hard, HC or MM. Would fit nicely.
-NoPiks New Zealand. Ok, a bit long in my taste for a parallel tour, 7 days. otherwise very good with 4 sprints, 2 HC 1 MM and a TTT. Just the length..

And I'm sure you must have more tours 4-5 (6) days, with a certain number of sprints.

If it stays like it is, of course it stays like it is... but it's certainly weird. Like if you would put x pure climbers tours parallel to Australia/Oman/Qatar in January/February. (I hope you don't plan to do that..) Add some stuff, shuffle Normandie around, those 2 sprint tours next to each other risk to be too much even for Hardcoresprinters like Marzahn.

[Robyklebt]

2 more things:

-Add Bolkow Bolkow cat 2
-If the less rider test starts, wouldn't it make sense to have Sahara and Kerala with less riders? If the respective designers agree? (not mentioning Normandie since that one doesn't make sense anyway )

[Robyklebt]

1 more thing

We still have the Vuelta bonifications. HC stages give 20" too. Thought you wanted that out? (I thought it made Jura more interesting actually, but probably not the same for all races)

[Robyklebt]

Ok, now I'm even more confused.

Gaelic trophy repeated, same as last year? You really have no other, similar races in your vault? Not that it doesn't look nice, but repeating the same tour is kind of strange. But ok, I give up.

[el Galactico]

Maybe we can have a decision soon? I dont want to change my form every 2 hours today? Normandie away, so i have to change all of my form. shit!

[Elaska]

Please don't change again ! we already put the forms ! and if we are not her again and you change ...